Hartmann or Luftwaffe repros...Repros or pure inventions...

Discussion in 'General Flight Jacket Discussion' started by Pilot, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    “Hartmann “ Luftwaffe repro ... E9B59E2B-5B2F-4883-A98E-34AB700D9D82.jpeg 8EC070CA-300A-4707-BDAF-7E1C0D5350C8.jpeg C431C7E6-CCC0-4927-81FE-5F1AEF68A7B7.jpeg Hartmann repro made by a little french artisan... 2AB57FB0-05F3-46CE-847E-43F8DFCB4E07.jpeg Just found this one, wanted to show it, since I see lot on crapbay and elswhere about so- called Luftwaffe or so called Hartmann vests ( originals all private purchases sure...but nowadays “fakes” = lousy copies or inventions at best...are so off tracks, one can wonder whether those “inventors” ever saw a photo or an original....from the 30ies/40ies...)
    Found this repro which I really like...looks 100% like my WW2 originals...by all means. It has like the WW2 ones...: Cotton thread, nickel brass Eclair zips , ( no molded Swiss RiRi or YKK or others) , D- rings waist adjusters, chrome plated magnetic front buckle ( no funny stainless steel buckle), wooden pocket flap buttons, coton/blanket liner, most importantly the right proportion of pockets via torso, no breast or back seams....& last but not least ...no handwarmers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  2. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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  3. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    DB2BED87-90D5-4F23-B9AA-F3310E4DDAA6.jpeg
    Since no more interested in repros, I will list this one soon when back in France.
     
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  4. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    75 years earlier...

    8D825CD5-E7DC-4D02-8DC7-6B527EE96BB2.jpeg An original and ex-owners wartime photos
     
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  5. Silver Surfer

    Silver Surfer Well-Known Member

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    something goofy happened to my post, so read the end of this sentence sh and attach it to the ot seven rows down. many "luftwaffe" jackets were made during the 1930s-40s for cycling. they were the "thing" for young hot sh
    many "luftwaffe" jackets were made during the 1930s-40s for cycling. they were the "thing" for young hot shot european guys. many were made in austria, germany, rumainia, and especially france. lutwaffe pilots adopted this style of jacket for their pracicality, and dashing looks. as i understand it luftwaffe officers were officially issued uniforms, and some of those "channel [fur collared] jackets, but not flight jackets per se. when germany occupied france, the luftwaffe guys on leave would source biker jackets from french leather tailors. they were in all kinds of iterations, ie: some with hand war,er pockets, some without, some with zippered sleeves, some with.......ya get the idea. when an ace was seen wearing one, the newbies would want one like the ace's. bottom line, there was no "official" style. many show up on geed bay and militaria sites and are sold as luftwaffe jackets, and for the most part they are jackets from the 1950s or so. yes there some offered that were made in the 1940s, but raely are they offered with provenance. the one above is a nice rendition of what is now commonly called a "hartmann" luftwaffe jacket. many companies now make "hartmann" jackets and they are all over the place regarding style, and quality.
    ot european guys. many were made in austria, germany, rumainia, and especially france. lutwaffe pilots adopted this style of jacket for their pracicality, and dashing looks. as i understand it luftwaffe officers were officially issued uniforms, and some of those "channel [fur collared] jackets, but not flight jackets per se. when germany occupied france, the luftwaffe guys on leave would source biker jackets from french leather tailors. they were in all kinds of iterations, ie: some with hand war,er pockets, somme without, some with zippered sleeves, some with.......ya get the idea. when an ace was seen wearing one, the newbies would want one like the ace's. bottom line, there was no "official" style. many show up on geed bay and militaria sites and are sold as luftwaffe jackets, and for the most part they are jackets from the 1950s or so. yes there some offered that were made in the 1940s, but rarely are they offered with provenance. the one above is a nice rendition of what is now commonly called a "hartmann" luftwaffe jacket. a lot of these types of jackets are now offered by several makers, most of which are crapola, and all over the place in terms of design and quality, although the elc version seems to be pretty good.
     
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  6. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Love your description...”crapola”...which is hiting the nail on his head....”Mall jacket” might also be appropriate for some...
    As per hand warmer pockets...on private purchased jackets...never saw any ww2 photo with those, but eager to see one...Some issued fleece / lined jacket had...
    My ww2 photos show mostly “Hartmann” jackets...almost no others...as pp jackets...
    Concure with most of the other of your post and thanks for it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  7. Nickb123

    Nickb123 Active Member

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    Hehe I just ordered a "Hartmann" certainly lacking the finer details of Eastman, et. al...however I'm a fan of the general style; these German jackets are a kind of moral dilemma. I certainly would want to avoid getting TOO immersed in a Luftwaffe jacket for my own reasons so I'm happy to have a generic copy of an otherwise elegant style. That said, I'm glad the Eastman copies exist.
     
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  8. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    AE540D7B-34EC-4DBF-B84A-A1F6D0275C3F.jpeg
    Sold an original text book “ Hartmann” to the son of a French Maquisard ..French Resistance during WW2. All sides wore these...So dont worry its basically no German jacket but a French jacket from the 30ies and 40ies.....The German and others just loved it...even nowadays...so much that even in Asia its “ forged” ;););)
    German WW2 aces also loved allied leather flight jackets, and wore them a lot ( many photo evidences...)...so...
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
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  9. Nickb123

    Nickb123 Active Member

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    You're very right.
     
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  10. Silver Surfer

    Silver Surfer Well-Known Member

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    yup, as noted above.
     
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  11. PADDY_M

    PADDY_M Active Member

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    Location:
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    Isn't the HARTMAN a name dreamt up by the Eastman company? Or did that generic name exist years before ELC adopted it? I always called it a French cycling jacket. That first one of yours is gorgeous Pilot. One day I'll get one!! Great post. Paddy.
     
  12. CBI

    CBI Well-Known Member

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    A really nice jacket! who made it?
     
  13. B-Man2

    B-Man2 Well-Known Member

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    Great thread with interesting information.
    I always liked this jacket as the style seems timeless. Pilot , I liked your response that it was never really a war time jacket associated with any one particular side, but simply a “ French Cyclist Jacket” worn by anyone with the resources to purchase it.
     
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  14. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Thx...
     
  15. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Thx Paddy.
    It is ( also ) called Hartmann jacket because most famous Erich Hartmann Luftwaffe pilot and fighter pilot ace ( 352 confirmed kills ) wore two or maybe 3 of them...in summer times ( warmer temps ) only... ( Flew NATO jets in the Bundesluftwaffe after returning from a Soviet prison camp mid 1950 ies.
    The repro maker is a two men ( one man one lady ) show in France...a very dedicated little artisan leather tailor shop who makes them with mostly NOS metal parts and according to their still in stock originals...
    They so far got a contract with Japan and export 99.9% to some new fashion boutiques there...
    Lucky enough I got a test jacket...lead time is outrageous ( The “Hartmann “ Goodwear) if you order custom made...test jackets show up here and there... But really thats the best faithfull repro to 1930-40 originals ...I have seen so far...Just compare deatails, materials, cut.etc........if you wish.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
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  16. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    A french 2 men ( 1 Lady one Gent) team , a little artisan .
    They mainly contract manufacture with NOS metalware and this for boutiques in Japan and apparently also CIS.
    Lucky if you get a test jacket...Got one.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  17. johnwayne

    johnwayne Well-Known Member

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    A few A2's made their way onto Luftwaffe pilots too, Maj Heinz Bar to name one, 220 kills he was shot down himself some 18 times ending WWII flying the Me262.
     
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  18. Earloffunk

    Earloffunk Well-Known Member

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    Pilot, could you please shoot me some contact info on the French maker? I might be tempted to get on of these jackets...
     
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  19. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Sure... pm sent...
     
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  20. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Not only Maj. H.B. also Hermann Graf, Ekkehard Bob, Günther Rall.... plus many others...in A-2’s.
    Not mentioning all the Luftwaffe pilots in Irvin’s ( Galland p.e.) and in B-3’s...they just loved those shearlings...
    The only USAAF jackets never pictured nor worn by Luftwaffe aces were USAAF fabric jackets and AN-J-4 (fleece)...they called them “Ami- Schrott”( read American junk # all fabric jackets).
    But they loved A-2 , Irvin’sand of course B-3’s and its documented in photo evidences almost as much as for photo-evidences with ( French cyclist) “Hartmann” jackets...
    The AN-J-4 jacket came too late for the Luftwaffe “ jacket collectors” I believe...
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019

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