Government contract blue L-2B or commercial copy?

[FtrPlt]

I was trolling eBay and found this L-2B listed. Alpha Industries but has a valid NSN (Jacket, Utility). Couldn't make out the SPO to see if it's a good number. I suspect it probably is.

Blue with blue interior. No epaulettes so accurate for the last versions of the L-2B.
Any idea what agency might use this?
None of the usual Alpha tags present and zips are typical mil and not Alpha-marked. I called for measurements and it's a typical Alpha mini-medium -- 21" across the chest. I was hoping they had a large but no dice.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261322964475

 

[Monsoon]

Security Police, or APs back in the day? Doesn't have the little tabs on the chest for holding a badge, tho.

 

[FtrPlt]

I'm pretty sure the AF security police have always worn a jacket similar to this one -- earlier ones having the tabs for attaching the police badge.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Air-Forc...Winter-Uniform-Jacket-RARE-ITEM-/151301508860

I think this is one of the earlier SP/LE jackets -- CWU-46
http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-SECURITY...ATHER-JUMPER-USAF-Military-Army-/271339005606

 

[a2jacketpatches]

I was 42nd SPS in 1986, my blue jacket was nylon with removable blue fake fur collar and had the badge tab. I think it's still stuffed away somewhere at my Dads house in Massachusetts. The one in your photo was issued to the LE guys (Law Enforcement) they were the gate guards and basic policing around base. I think they may have used other blue nylon jackets earlier as brassards were used along with cloth badges.

 

[FtrPlt]

Looks like there was a CWU-46 and CWU-47 which were both special issue items for Air Police. Easy enough to find photos of the winter-weight CWU-46 but all I could find on the CWU-47 is that it's cancelled and the last date for MIL-J-83471 is April 1983

Added: found a photo of a CWU-47

Another footnote:
Apparently NSN's starting with 8415 are for special purpose clothing (84 = Clothing, Individual Equipment, and Insignia; 15 = special purpose). pertinent since the above SP/LE/SF items are all specific to AF security and all are 8415 NSN's.

The L-2B which starts this thread is 8405, which is Clothing, Outerwear (84 = Clothing, Individual Equipment, and Insignia; 05 = outerwear) which implies this is a general purpose item of issue and not speciality clothing (i.e. not a security forces item).

I'm wondering if Customs, Border Patrol, etc all use the NSN system for their uniform items?

 

[watchmanjimg]

If you read the description in the eBay listing here's what you'll find:

Light Weight Flying Jacket,

Alpha Mfg.

Navy Blue Water Resistant Outer Shell

with Survival Orange Rayon Sateen Lining,

2 Front Flap Pockets,

Alpha Signature Utility/Pencil Pocket on Sleeve

Size Medium

The foregoing does not describe any military-issued jacket I've ever seen (much less one labeled as an L-2B), but rather the typical Alpha civilian offering. A quick Google search yielded many sage-green 7448K jackets bearing labels in the same layout shown in the pictures we're discussing, with expected variations of the stock number for different sizes. In each case the contract number was lined out with marker as seen in our example, and the zippers appeared to be a similar Ideal type in white metal.

I also ran across the military specifications for the model here:

http://www.everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL- ... 448K_9436/

The only color I saw referenced in the specs is "USAF color shade No. 1511, sage green." While none of this is 100% conclusive, I'll be the first to suggest that perhaps the label shown in this listing is a stock photo that may not accurately reflect what you'd get if you purchased the jacket. Moreover, the description mentions the typical orange lining that was done away with in the K revision.

The jacket shown in the listing looks to have a dark lining and a military label, but the description of a jacket with orange lining and an Alpha "signature" on the sleeve pocket tells me what's actually being offered for sale is a civvy model.

Still think it could be GI? Check this one out, which appears to have the same contract number. Looks like an issued example until you scroll to the bottom . . .

http://www.cc9.ne.jp/~rin-wrg/L2-B7448K.htm

 

[FtrPlt]

The jacket in the listing does have a dark blue interior. They had several of them (all mediums) plus a few size L that were clearly the current Alpha L-2B in dark blue with orange interior (the size L jackets had commercial Alpha tags, sleeve pocket tabs, and Alpha-marked pullers)

Found this jacket, complete with all the factory tags attached
http://camp-jp.com/jacket/alfal2bm.htm

 

[watchmanjimg]

The jacket in the listing does have a dark blue interior. They had several of them (all mediums) plus a few size L that were clearly the current Alpha L-2B in dark blue with orange interior (the size L jackets had commercial Alpha tags, sleeve pocket tabs, and Alpha-marked pullers)

Found this jacket, complete with all the factory tags attached
http://camp-jp.com/jacket/alfal2bm.htm

Fascinating. It appears to be GI issue but bears commercial hang tags. I wonder if the crossed-out SPO number is telltale? Overrun/cancelled contract?

 

[FtrPlt]

Fascinating. It appears to be GI issue but bears commercial hang tags. I wonder if the crossed-out SPO number is telltale? Overrun/cancelled contract?

I was thinking the same thing. The NSN does go to "Jacket, Utility" and matches up for the various sizes on the NSNs. We then go to the mismatch between the lining color (orange per Mil-J-7448K) and exterior color (no reference to blue).

I think even the vintage series of replicas has Alpha tags on the sleeve pocket. I'm trying to think of why Alpha would omit them on a non-contract jacket?

Wish I knew more about the contracting system. I'd try and see who the contract was for?

 

[watchmanjimg]

I was thinking the same thing. The NSN does go to "Jacket, Utility" and matches up for the various sizes on the NSNs. We then go to the mismatch between the lining color (orange per Mil-J-7448K) and exterior color (no reference to blue).

I thought the K specs call for green lining, but in any case this is getting interesting.

 

[FtrPlt]

found this one at MASH-Japan. If you look closely, the image of the zipper shows the internal puller so it's a reversible-type jacket even though the lining is the same color as the exterior. Again, why bother unless it was called for in the contract specs??

Then there's the whole matter of the dark blue version.

http://www.mash-japan.co.jp/cgi-bin/prd.cgi?itemno=91-50-5100

 

[watchmanjimg]

The last MA-1s with green lining have a double-sided slider which typically lacks the inner brass puller tab, but these were unquestionably issued and used in service albeit supposedly not for flying. I'm beginning to wonder if any of these '94-marked versions are genuine GI. The zippers look like crap and the Japanese care label in the one example is highly questionable.

 

[FtrPlt]

I dismissed the Japanese care label as nothing more than something required for them to be imported into Japan? It doesn't appear to be sewn in particularly well.

Alternatively, maybe these were intended for export all along -- explaining why they're apparently available in Asia but not really known about here? If so, it seems a lot of effort to make them meet the specs for the NSN they're associated with. You would think a run of replica series L-2s would have better market success.

 

[FtrPlt]

I don't fully understand the NSN system so the following is just theory.

The NSN's for these L-2B jackets sit among a considerable number of generic (no agency given) police/guard/treasury guard items with NSNs immediately preceding and following the numbers for these jackets.

The above still doesn't explain the jackets being blue vs the 7448 specs but clearly these were produced in both sage and blue -- both with green/blue interiors, respectively.