• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

GoodWear vs Eastman

mulceber

Moderator
I have the impression that John is favoring the horsehide from Victoria, but maybe that just has to do with the test jackets I see in my size. Jan, you probably know better than me! John also has some nice goatskin coming in from a new source that has really wonderful grain.

Yeah, he definitely leans toward Italian for the test jackets (unless he's testing a new leather, of course). But he's told me that he thinks Horween recreates the look of vintage horsehide better than anyone. So I'm not sure why the test jackets mostly seem to be Victoria. Maybe Victoria's easier to deal with, so if he's making a test jacket, he'll default to the leather he can most easily get more of?
 

Chandler

Well-Known Member
I always point to The Great Escape in comparison to my mid-90s ELC 1401. The collar lays just the same as Hilts's.

Not sure if ELC has changed up patterns since then, but my 1401 is a favorite that won't get passed on until I'm near the end.
 
Last edited:

Nickb123

Well-Known Member
Maybe the collars need extra wear to shape up nicely, and for all I know, it could be authentic. Pulled this one on Google images-it looks like a Roughwear phenomenon-but the collar just looks off to me. There is no “roll”. Still a lovely jacket!

F040B515-59F1-4865-BDF3-70C1AFADD053.jpeg

even this one.
D2C73DE4-9539-4057-B838-928DCEA8B121.jpeg
 
Last edited:

Sideslip

Well-Known Member
Maybe the collars need extra wear to shape up nicely, and for all I know, it could be authentic. Pulled this one on Google images-it looks like a Roughwear phenomenon-but the collar just looks off to me. There is no “roll”. Still a lovely jacket!
even this one.
View attachment 71766
All the collars in the Catch-22 series seemed to look like that but I couldn’t work out how or why they would be so wide and flat. It looks good, just a little odd that they didn’t try some collar variety.
 

Nickb123

Well-Known Member
All the collars in the Catch-22 series seemed to look like that but I couldn’t work out how or why they would be so wide and flat. It looks good, just a little odd that they didn’t try some collar variety.

I think it’s an ELC thing. I’m looking at my ELC Dubow now, and while it’s not as obvious as a Rough Wear, the collar is still pretty flat. Actually I’m positive it’s an ELC thing because I have enough GWs now. ;) But it’s being picky and I’m sure there were probably originals that had the undeveloped collars too.
 

johnwayne

Well-Known Member
Having said earlier in this thread that I’d moved my 1401 on, I do still have my house ELC from very early 90’s - a different A2 entirely. The 1401 was thinner but stiffer and chrome tanned I reckon compared to the house being veg tanned and softer. Totally different if caught in rain too whereby it soaked into the leather rather than ‘run-off’ the house jacket but the collar bugged me, no ‘roll’ as such even though I tend to wear un-studded.
I think it’s been said here before that the 1401 collar can look a bit clownish but maybe that was just a period ELC was going through with varying leather types/tanneries/suppliers.
Perhaps GW/JC is more selective/choosey in what he accepts but my Doniger to me is faultless. An M422a from Aero I bought new years ago suffered from the stiff leather syndrome too, even after quite a few wears and they later admitted it was a time when they experienced issues with some leather suppliers - needless to say that was offloaded too when an original early G1 came my way!!!
 

Chandler

Well-Known Member
Having said earlier in this thread that I’d moved my 1401 on, I do still have my house ELC from very early 90’s - a different A2 entirely. The 1401 was thinner but stiffer and chrome tanned I reckon compared to the house being veg tanned and softer. Totally different if caught in rain too whereby it soaked into the leather rather than ‘run-off’ the house jacket but the collar bugged me, no ‘roll’ as such even though I tend to wear un-studded.
I think it’s been said here before that the 1401 collar can look a bit clownish but maybe that was just a period ELC was going through with varying leather types/tanneries/suppliers.
Perhaps GW/JC is more selective/choosey in what he accepts but my Doniger to me is faultless. An M422a from Aero I bought new years ago suffered from the stiff leather syndrome too, even after quite a few wears and they later admitted it was a time when they experienced issues with some leather suppliers - needless to say that was offloaded too when an original early G1 came my way!!!
It sounds like your 1401 was one of the veg-tanned, aniline dyed versions that came out in the late '90s or early '00s.
 

Brettafett

Well-Known Member
I just popped onto ELCs website for a looksee. Was astounded to see the price for an original maker A-2 is now £1299.99
Thats the same price as a goat GW, his HH A-2s being around $100 more. Being UK-based, I'd add another $100 postage

Bill Kelso's A-2s still set at £875 plus postage, which to me at least having owned jackets from almost everyone, would/ should be a no-brainer.
Platon's were at 450 Euro, if it fits, BIG win.... unfortunately no new orders.

Thank goodness for the likes of AVI and 5* for the curious, flight jacket newbie, toe-dipping, patch & painting wannabes....

This really is getting to be an expensive hobby!
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
I just popped onto ELCs website for a looksee. Was astounded to see the price for an original maker A-2 is now £1299.99
Thats the same price as a goat GW, his HH A-2s being around $100 more. Being UK-based, I'd add another $100 postage

Bill Kelso's A-2s still set at £875 plus postage, which to me at least having owned jackets from almost everyone, would/ should be a no-brainer.
Platon's were at 450 Euro, if it fits, BIG win.... unfortunately no new orders.

Thank goodness for the likes of AVI and 5* for the curious, flight jacket newbie, toe-dipping, patch & painting wannabes....

This really is getting to be an expensive hobby!

They're obviously able to sell them for that price so good on them I say.

However for people like us who arguably have more knowledge, then it's fairly obvious that GW is the far better option for the price - more accurate, made to measure, etc. Yes there's the wait but let's face it we've all got jackets to wear in the meantime so the wait really isn't a struggle.

Like you say though Brett, pretty tough for those wanting to dip their toes in the hobby for the first-time so it's important that there's some cheaper options for those newbies.
 

mulceber

Moderator
I don't think any WW2 jackets were made with rich veg-tanned leather either. ;) They also had wacky stitching left, right and center. The reality is that the repros we acquire are all fantasy jackets. If a customer wants their fantasy jacket to fit them perfectly, well that's at least more realistic than an A-2 jacket made out of veg-tanned Italian leather.

On the price question, a few months back JC of all people told me about an interaction he had with Gary that actually made me more sympathetic to Eastman's price scheme: a couple years ago, John met Gary and they were shooting the breeze and, by way of congratulations, John brought up the fact that Eastman now employs 8 people. Gary then grumbled "Yeah, and now all I do all day long is sell, sell, sell, sell, sell." For all that employing 8 people makes his turn-around time quicker, I don't think it makes it less expensive. Probably the opposite. I don't imagine Gary's sending himself on luxurious tropical vacations with these price hikes.

That said, I'd still buy from GW first: better patterns, one-on-one conversations with the jacket maker, and more options for leather
 
Last edited:

Nickb123

Well-Known Member
I adore my ELC Dubow. It has the finest leather out of all of them I feel. Overly luxurious of course but it’s a treat in the looks department. Wearing it, it will require a beating.

That said, I can only offer my vantage point not of historical accuracy vs. non, but rather just “look”.

I think the GWs have a little extra refinement going on. When you look at one of John’s collars, you can see the care and time to shape it and make it roll correctly.

Eastmans can look a little cookie-cutter. But worn Eastmans look awesome in their own right. Some of the really worn ones look pretty indistinguishable from originals. Goodwear look pretty good from day one.

My outside looking in 2cents.
 

CBI

Well-Known Member
with their latest offerings, both ELC and GW are amazing. I think someone can be totally happy with either......however........for the OCD's in the world, there will never be a resolution, probably having both will be necessary.
 
Top