GoodWear vs Eastman. Does it have to be a battle?

[majormajor1]

Just recently joined the site, and I have to say congrats to all - a brilliant place!

One thing I do see is alot of talk, and some excellent pictures of GoodWear A2s. Beautiful jackets! Sadly though, it seems, in many cases, if you love GoodWear, you've gotta diss ELC. Why is that?

Back in the 60's, you had to either be a Beatles fan or a Stones fan. Why not both? I was!

GoodWear are in the US, so I can understand anyone local to there to go with GoodWear. I'm in the UK, but am I really buying such an inferior jacket by buying from a UK maker?

Here's a couple of pics (sorry about the "camera in the mirror" quality) of my latest A2, a brand new Eastman Monarch in Warhorse Hide. I'm an exact size 40, so the fit is superb, and the quality and accuracy is first class. I ordered it on a Monday, and it dropped on my doorstep TWO days later.

It looks and feels fine to me. Is there something I am missing?

 

[John Lever]

There's certainly room in my mind and cupboard for both companies. Just my opinion but remember the US has not been the place to buy good repros until quite recently so that may be a factor.

 

[269sqnhudson]

There were a couple of chaps in the past (or still here, not sure) who seemed to despise Eastman jackets for minor authenticity infractions, both real and perceived and one fella I remember vehemently disliking them because they were too perfect-looking.
This all seems to have been tempered down in the last year or so. I personally recognise minor failings in some models, both past and present. The quality of the first Star Sportswear in about 2000 was sub-standard due to flimsy colour-shedding hide and I reckon the knits are generally a wee bit fuzzy. However all the barking about shoulder droop and pocket spacing seemed like a load of guff given that we're usually talking about heftier chaps (I'm one myself) comparing the look and fit to that of a 160 pound 20 year old in the forties.
I still buy Eastmans pretty much annually and any problems I've had have always been corrected and jackets exchanged promptly etc.
Goodwear seem to be great, sure, but being UK based I buy Eastman. If GW opened up the road I'd buy one of those too!

 

[Marv]

I agree, I currently own 3 ELC A2s and 1 ELC G1 but I would also like a Goodwear as well and generally think that most of the A2 enthusiasts feel the same way about owning A2s from both Gary and John.

By the way, your Monarch looks sweet !!!

 

[dmar836]

I have one of each. I think in most all cases, GW replicates the contracts most accurately of the two. First time I've said that here as I have not really noticed that battle on this particular site.
JMO,
Dave

 

[Tim P]

I have been an eastman advocate for decades and my 2 A-2s are from them as is my B10, B6 , D1, buzzes and Irvin. The second hand Goodwears I have had have been too snug in the shoulders for me and have had odours that I have found unpleasant despite looking first rate. I would love a poughkeepsie from John to my measurements.
There is no contest really, both manufacturers have had some triumphs and some less than perfect attributes. I loved the ELC take on an Aero from the 90's russet with red knit and mustard lining but the bloody thing would not look more than a day old no matter how hard I wore it.
They have shaken off their over engineered stigma spectacularly these days and if the artificial weathering thing is not for you then grainy and imperfect is available as an option in unweathered state so the whole gamut is there.

i also recall true emotion being vented here about the spacing of the pockets on Eastmans. They look fine to me, and not paying to import them, never waiting more than 48 hours for the jacket, solid construction and so on make them a solid choice for me.

 

[Vcruiser]

I think that when some seem to prefer downplaying a repro's few long standing imperfections only in order of allegiance to the brand is what causes some to occassionally come up for air. Especially when another company has raised the bar fairly quickly with new enthusiasm... dilligent research and willingness to put that into their jackets while continually bettering their product. Perhaps inspiring others to finally come around and improve as well. It would seem so.

 

[Cliff]

I have an Eastman, an Aero, a Goodwear and a Real Mcoys that I swapped and ELC star for with Tim P. Love them all !!

 

[nogbat]

i think both are good ,, i like the modern fit of elc , i have a goodwear star a2, a very nice looking jacket but as stated before a little tight on the shoulders.. ime still waiting for the new elc 1401.... :ugeek: :ugeek:

 

[watchmanjimg]

It looks and feels fine to me. Is there something I am missing?

Welcome aboard! You've really said it all. If you're happy with your jacket there's nothing more to discuss. The rest of us will continue to wrangle over the details, but that's our problem.

PS: I'd also point out that the latest ELC Star looks like some of the best work they've ever done, so it comes as no surprise that you're satisfied with it. Enjoy!

 

[deand]

Welcome to the VLJ! I'd take one of both or either! They are equally out of reach unless I can snag a pre-owned gem on ebay for soemthing les than the price foa new one. Thing is, dpending on how they are treated, I suspect they will retain their value well.




dean

 

[nogbat]

welcome major ,, is your monarch russet , it looks a good fit and nice leather but it looks a little dark...

 

[majormajor1]

Welcome to the VLJ! I'd take one of both or either! They are equally out of reach unless I can snag a pre-owned gem on ebay for soemthing les than the price foa new one. Thing is, dpending on how they are treated, I suspect they will retain their value well.




dean

Well, my first A2, I kept it for over twenty years, so, as I've had this one for two weeks, give me a bell in 2030, and ask for the 80 year old bloke in the leather!! :shock:

 

[majormajor1]

welcome major ,, is your monarch russet , it looks a good fit and nice leather but it looks a little dark...

Yes, it is russet - it just looks a little dark in the pics. Much redder in the flesh, so to speak...

Gotta say - a beautiful jacket. I am VERY happy with it

 

[nogbat]

thanks major ,, i must say ime tempted or should i wait for the 1401. :?

 

[RCSignals]

weren't originals imperfect? Given the same manufacturer were they not slightly different from each other even from the same contract?
These were mass produced jackets.
For repros I guess it is what is in the eye of the buyer. Does he want a jacket 'warts and all' that looks like something the Storeman threw at him or does he want a jacket that looks like the Manufacturers trade sample submitted to get a contract... i.e. perfect.

I've never held a GW but I have an Eastman. They are both fine jackets to my eye. I do like Eastman's reproduction period zippers.
From what I've seen of GWs on his site and on eBay I can't see how one could go wrong.
For either I'd say just be sure of your own measurements.

 

[Weasel_Loader]

Welcome to the forum. Always glad to see more new faces.

I've owned both ELC and GW. I returned my ELC 2775 when the sleeves were too long for me and I didn't like the quality of the knits. I would very much like to try some of the newer ELCs and wouldn't hesitate a bit to own one. I now own a GW Bronco goat and love it!

 

[majormajor1]

I notice that both sites are now singing the praises of their "new" superior HH. And both charging not that dissimilar increased prices for "revamped" A2 models. I wonder if both hides are from the same source?

 

[Roughwear]

Having owned most of ELC house and original maker A2s and several GWs, plus many original A2s (17 at present) there is really no contest. The current batch of GW A2s are more accurate than ELC A2s. Good Wear offers an accurate repro of almost every make of A2 and gets almost all the details spot on. Sadly ELC offers a much more limited choice and does not get as many details correct. The latest Italian hh is too thick and does not not come near to the various batches of hh on originals. However some of the early ELC A2s are far closer in terms of hide than most of the current ones IMO.

 

[majormajor1]

and does not get as many details correct.

Which ones exactly? Your knowledge of this stuff is huge, so please elaborate.

However some of the early ELC A2s are far closer in terms of hide than most of the current ones IMO.

I bought my first Eastman around 25 years ago. My recollection is that all were steerhide in those days, with the fit of a mall jacket. They've improved a tad since then, IMHO.

The latest Italian hh is too thick.

This is what John says about his new HH:

"This new horsehide is veg-tanned, and is 1.1mm in thickness (2.75 ounces). Jackets made with this horsehide feel very heavy, as the horsehide is quite dense."

On measuring my new "Warhorse" Monarch from Eastman, the thickness is pretty much the same as that quoted above. So, as I said, possibly the same stuff.

there is really no contest.

My original point. WHY does it have to be a contest? I like em both!