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Goodwear B-10

Brettafett

Well-Known Member
I have to agree with the above. That said, I don't think ELC's B-10 is 100%... That collar... OK, mine is from 2005, but still its the only thing holding it back (even AVI's G-1 mouton is nicer!). I do intend to replace it with some vintage brown mouton. Project for the new year.
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
I do not own an original B-10 but own two pairs of A-9 and I am speaking from comparing pictures gathered on the internet. So take this with a grain of salt...

To my untrained eye, BR, RMC and TMC (Toy Mccoy) current offerings are patch works of different manufacturers characteristics.

Rib color is either too dark or just not period correct (BR jade green seen on B-15) (RMC dark red brown instead of a pale chocolate)... ELC has a nice sage green that we see a lot on originals.
Zippers are nickel plated (should be brass Conmar or Talon).
Cloth is either too pale and yellowish or too dark green.
Tag is not accurate, Toy Mccoy instead of real manufacturer name.
Alpaca color is all over the place.
Some buttons are really too pale some times. Not the mid yellow/orange we find on Sovereign...
Most collars are nice!

Funny thing is RMC did produced all variation of most manufacturers characteristics at one point. They could be on par with ELC if they wanted. Toy Mccoy too have a nice B-10, color wise (ribs and cloth).

So presently, I think ELC has the most (not perfect) B-10, except for that disturbing collar...

Hope I make sens this morning, please correct me if needed!

Dany
Had them all...
Sold the ELC and BR B-10’s here.
The Stagg is still the best... even if the silver Talon may be a bit disturbing...Easy to fix anyway... MASH in Japan has the brass Conmar zipper and a good tailor can replace it. All others best possible if comparing to an original black label Stagg...
IMHE...
 
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Technonut2112

Well-Known Member
I've never owned an original, but have read over the years that they were lined with double-faced alpaca-wool blend, like BR makes theirs, and Eastman's is single-face. The difference in 'bulk' between the Buzz double-faced and Eastman RW is definitely noticeable, as anyone who has handled both would know. How do the originals actually compare in this case? Are they indeed a bit bulkier than Eastman as one would assume? Did the government specs call for double-faced to be used across-the-board when manufactured?

EDIT: The collar on this L.S.L. Garment Co. B-10 looks very reddish to me (From Acme Depot):

LSL_front.jpg
LSL_back.jpg
 
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Dany McDonald

Active Member
Agreed Technonut, that`s red, in fact really close to ELC. Wish the image was bigger, I will look for LSL B-10 on the net.

I like the dark collar on the Red Tail B-10 too, matches B/W images...

Dany
 

Technonut2112

Well-Known Member
I was hoping that someone who has handled an original B-10, Eastman, and a Buzz would have commented on my above questions. I have a theory which may explain it. First off, no matter how authentic the Eastman looks when worn, it cannot IMO be considered totally authentic if indeed the government specs called for a double-faced alpaca-wool lining. Just can't be since Eastman uses single-face.

I haven't worn my Buzz Superior Togs much, but I imagine that after a lot of wear and movement, the lining will settle and flatten somewhat. Wartime B-10's would have done the same, hence the 'slimmer' look some have in period pics, and eBay / collector pics. One thing I do know.. If one wants the warmer B-10 to wear in colder weather, the Buzz would be it (at least in my limited testing). The Eastman's single-face lining makes the jacket lighter than the Buzz, since it is minus an entire side of alpaca-wool in the lining. Perhaps Eastman elected to go this route to provide the wartime look desired by folks who would throw-down $750.00 USD to obtain it without the time needed to flatten the lining down.

As for the cotton shells... Both the Eastman and Buzz are VERY authentic looking compared to close-ups I've seen in detailed pics of the weave in originals. I wonder where Eastman's material is sourced from? It's probable that the Buzz is more than likely made from looms and equipment practically pilfered by Japanese investors from the U.S. factories where the originals may have been made, or from similar ones. Does anyone have the exact B-10 construction specs to post?
 

Dany McDonald

Active Member
Today I decided to placed an order for Buzz Rough Wear B-10 on Rakuten, it's on sale. Will compare cloth and alpaca with my A-9's once I get it.

You are right assuming that the alpaca will flatten with time, on my A-9 it's thick and dense, but it started to compact in areas. The A-9 cloth is thin, very soft and tightly woven, definitely high quality.

ELC alpaca looks shorter yes, but keep in mind that the cut is slimmer than Buzz, hence the slim 40's look. My first choice was ELC , for the fit and all, but that collar was a turn off. I am anxious that Buzz may be too blousy though.

From original pics, and like A-2's some guys had room in their B-10, practical when fighting minus 40 degrees for layering. I am guessing that it felt more comfortable wearing a slim kit under all the harnesses and other
straps...?

D
 

Technonut2112

Well-Known Member
ELC alpaca looks shorter yes
Congratz on your Buzz RW purchase. :) Thanks for the confirmation on the alpaca flattening-down.. I'm not referring to shorter alpaca length, just the fact that Eastman's lining only has alpaca on one side of the lining (single-face), while the BR has it on BOTH sides of the lining (double-faced). It does make the BR a warmer jacket than the Eastman (at least in the 20 F weather I tested them in for around an hour each)..
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
F18A87B4-27DC-4228-AC73-AEA90EE402AD.jpeg
Today I decided to placed an order for Buzz Rough Wear B-10 on Rakuten, it's on sale. Will compare cloth and alpaca with my A-9's once I get it.

You are right assuming that the alpaca will flatten with time, on my A-9 it's thick and dense, but it started to compact in areas. The A-9 cloth is thin, very soft and tightly woven, definitely high quality.

ELC alpaca looks shorter yes, but keep in mind that the cut is slimmer than Buzz, hence the slim 40's look. My first choice was ELC , for the fit and all, but that collar was a turn off. I am anxious that Buzz may be too blousy though.

From original pics, and like A-2's some guys had room in their B-10, practical when fighting minus 40 degrees for layering. I am guessing that it felt more comfortable wearing a slim kit under all the harnesses and other
straps...?

D
Early BR- B-10 is a very good choice. Congrats.
 
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Dany McDonald

Active Member
Hey Technonut,

I'm not referring to shorter alpaca length, just the fact that Eastman's lining only has alpaca on one side of the lining (single-face), while the BR has it on BOTH sides of the lining (double-faced).
To better understand single vs double, can you elaborate from this A-9 image? I see one layer of Alpaca.

a-9.jpg

Thank you,

D
 

Technonut2112

Well-Known Member
Hey Technonut,



To better understand single vs double, can you elaborate from this A-9 image? I see one layer of Alpaca.

View attachment 12631

Thank you,

D
I'm not sure what the specs were on the trousers, but the double-faced that I understand to be spec for the jacket has alpaca-wool on both sides of the lining, not just one. It is evident on my Buzz when feeling for it through the shell. My Eastman RW only has it on one side, and is lighter in weight than the Buzz.
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
As far as I could see BR and RMCJ have double layer Alpaga as per original specs...ELC surely not in any of their jackets (in the B-10 and B-15A I had) Others? experts can tell more.
 

Technonut2112

Well-Known Member
Ok I get it now, so we see one layer on the trouser img, right?

But the B-10 could have been made with two...?

Look here, along where the zip was, I think we can see the double layer...

View attachment 12632
That looks like it could be.. I would like to see official government specs one way or the other. I have read numerous times over the years it is indeed double-faced lining, and is where the Buzz is more accurate than the Eastman. I have both types now, and either one is inaccurate, or the specs varied over the B-10's short production span and perhaps both types were produced.
 
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Pilot

Well-Known Member
Just checked my WW2 original MODA Coat B-11 where the Alpaga feels very thick and heavy, hence I assume double-faced. The B-11 Alpaga has the same consistence and structure as my RMCJ black Label Stagg B-10...thick warm, pliable and robust...not itching when wearing.
 

Technonut2112

Well-Known Member
Speaking of Buzz Rickson... I ran across this size 44 L.S.L. Garment Co. B-10 in excellent condition while browsing jackets in Japan on Buyee. ;):D It's only a matter of the buying service confirming stock, then it will be purchased and shipped to me for a killer price IMO (Around what a new Chinese Bronson B-10 costs + shipping). :) Keeping my fingers crossed...wish me luck!

Screenshot_2018-12-16 Order History -Buyee Japan Shopping Service.jpg
 

Dany McDonald

Active Member
That is a steal...guess he who seeks finds! Did you have to purchase Buyee points? Whats up with that?

I pick up my Buzz Rough Wear this WE and I really like it. It's not 100% accurate, ie colors..., but the cloth feels is like my A-9's and it's as well constructed.

Anyways, happy for you!

D
 
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