French cyclist jacket (or Hartmann) the 2nd.

[Enigma1938]

After "Kermit3D" showed his awesome cyclist jacket he bought from "pilot" I decide to show you mine. I'm currently on the restoration of a original cyclist and needed some parts for it, so I came in contact with pilot and after a few messages between us he attracted me to buy one of his replicas. I It's one of his older test-jackets and obviously made by the "little french artisan" back then when he still worked for/with pilot before he decided to retire.
After discussing stocks and sizes pilot told me he has one last jacket in size 42 left. That's the size I usually wear with most of my jackets so I tried it with this exemplar also and couldn't be more happy with the fit. It's trim as it should be and feels like a glove but is also roomy enough to move in it with a sweater underneath.
The jacket itself is beautiful made, everything is exactly like on the original ones. The Cut, the lining, the hardware. Love the little details like the manufacturer mark on the back of the buckle for example, just like on originals. In spite of everything I did some little changes to make it even more authentic. I replaced the zipper pulls with original 40s Eclairs like they were on a big part of the genuine jackets. And I replaced the fragile wooden buttons (one broke apart) with leather buttons, also like it is often seen on european jackets from the 30s / 40s.
In normal light and for the eye the buttons are way lesser reddish like in the pictures.
I hope you like the jacket as much as I do.

 

[Enigma1938]

more:

 

[Enigma1938]

A pic pilot sent me from the same jacket :

 

[Pilot]

A pic pilot sent me from the same jacket :

Thx for sharing! wow!

 

[flyincowboy]

nice jacket

 

[Pilot]

nice jacket

Plenty of them still available...

 

[dinomartino1]

Blimey

 

[Saint-ex]

Plenty of them still available...

Size 52 ?

 

[B-Man2]

A pic pilot sent me from the same jacket :

The jacket looks awesome but you can’t let this thread go without a fit picture

 

[Pilot]

Size 52 ?

Yup, of course, specializing is our strength...
Your PO ( incl. your measurements) is most welcome.

 

[B-Man2]

Talking about changing buttons , a while back I notice several of the original photos of LW pilots wearing these jacket opted to have the traditional leather buttons changed out for German military pebble finished buttons .

So I went on line and purchased some repro WWII German buttons and replaced them on an old LW jacket thatI’ve posted here in the past . I think it came out ok . Just sharing an idea with you Enigma . Not trying to steal your thread

 

[Enigma1938]

Talking about changing buttons , a while back I notice several of the original photos of LW pilots wearing these jacket opted to have the traditional leather buttons changed out for German military pebble finished buttons .
View attachment 45248
So I went on line and purchased some repro WWII German buttons and replaced them on an old LW jacket thatI’ve posted here in the past . I think it came out ok . Just sharing an idea with you Enigma . Not trying to steal your thread
View attachment 45250

Admittedly I thought about the same here for a moment or two. But then I decided against the german buttons (because the jacket isn't germanized with neither loops for epaulettes nor for insignia/ medals) and for the leather ones because I wanted the jacket to be"traditional" french.
I will submit a few fit pics as soon as I can, maybe at the weekend when I have a little off time.

 

[Enigma1938]

There's one thing I wonder about my jacket. Neither me nor pilot were able to figure out what leather type this jacket is made from. Maybe horse but unsure.
Is someone able to solve this riddle?

 

[B-Man2]

There's one thing I wonder about my jacket. Neither me nor pilot were able to figure out what leather type this jacket is made from. Maybe horse but unsure.
Is someone able to solve this riddle?

That may be difficult because you may remember that for several years the older members of this forum periodically engaged in discussions as wether cow hide had ever been used to make A2 jackets . The discussions went on and on. Most of which resulted in a fairly consistent decision that A2 jackets were mostly Horsehide and if there were some cowhide A2 jackets made during the war , it was probably done by unscrupulous makers, who slipped cowhide in for Horsehide under the radar in an effort to increase wartime production along with their personal fortunes.
It was only a few years ago the Gary Eastman conducted DNA tests on original A2 jackets and learned that the use of cow hide in the production of wartime A2 jackets was much more widely used then we ever thought.
The point in all of this history lesson is that it’s almost impossible to determine the hide of a leather jacket unless that jacket uses a very distinguishable hide such as buffalo or goat hide.

 

[Enigma1938]

That may be difficult because you may remember that for several years the older members of this forum periodically engaged in discussions as wether cow hide had ever been used to make A2 jackets . The discussions went on and on. Most of which resulted in a fairly consistent decision that A2 jackets were mostly Horsehide and if there were some cowhide A2 jackets made during the war , it was probably done by unscrupulous makers, who slipped cowhide in for Horsehide under the radar in an effort to increase wartime production along with their personal fortunes.
It was only a few years ago the Gary Eastman conducted DNA tests on original A2 jackets and learned that the use of cow hide in the production of wartime A2 jackets was much more widely used then we ever thought.
The point in all of this history lesson is that it’s almost impossible to determine the hide of a leather jacket unless that jacket uses a very distinguishable hide such as buffalo or goat hide.

I see. Just thought that someone could make a statement about it by looking at the leather surface, grain, gloss or whatever. Well I think that a big bunch of our jackets especially the vintage ones are made of (for us) unknown hides. Who else than Gary is able to do DNA analysis

 

[Kermit3D]

Woow another amazing cyclist jacket !
By buying one of the Pilot models, you made the right choice. Perfect cut (no other brand offers a properly cut cyclist jacket), materials that conform to originals...

The jacket you show in the picture with the leather buttons is the model you bought from Pilot, right?
It seems to be much lighter than mine. A different leather?

You are also talking about an original jacket that you are restoring, would it be possible to have pictures?


Congratulations again on this wonderful purchase.
I hope that other members of the forum will take the plunge... Guys, you won't find better elsewhere !

 

[Pilot]

Thx a lot.
If pre 1945 are interesting, there are 4 originals used for patterning left.
Sizes from 42“ to 48“ chest...
Of cours all wearable for daily use.
PM‘s welcom

 

[bn1966]

Really like the French cycle style with the Ostmann & Hartmann I got from ELC, casual chic but for some reason recognisable now as flight jackets. Have had ‘pilot’ comments about mine from folk. Would love one of the Pilot made ones..inspirational Sir!

 

[jack31916]

There's one thing I wonder about my jacket. Neither me nor pilot were able to figure out what leather type this jacket is made from. Maybe horse but unsure.
Is someone able to solve this riddle?

Did you consider pigskin? That was much used for motorcyclist jackets, trousers, gloves and leather helmets. Just a thought

 

[Brent]

Yep, need a fit pic. I've never even given this French cyclist jacket a second thought before..That thing is gorgeous and now I'm wondering if one should find it's way to my very limited collection. Thanks for posting it up.

Regards,