French cyclist jacket (Hartmann jacket) by Pilot

B-Man2

Well-Known Member
Hi K-3D
As most here have explained, the jacket Pilot made, is a spot on repro that was designed for 1930s and 1940 vintage clothing and riding a bicycle.
Before you do anything with it, why not try it on with a pair of regular waisted pants, instead of those low cuts jeans your wearing . Take a couple of photos of the jacket with regular waisted pants and then we can all offer you a better opinion of how it looks .
Low-cut jeans are the problem in these photos. Just an opinion .
 
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Smithy

Well-Known Member
Kermit, you're jacket is absolutely spot on! It is the perfect fit too. These were tailored to be worn short so comfortable in a sitting position - perfect for riding a bike or flying a 109 or 190 ;) , and in a time when trousers had a higher rise.

Don't do anything apart from wear and enjoy that beautiful jacket!
 
FWIW this is the fit of mine. I think it works quite well.

Your fit is historical and looks quite good - just make sure you're wearing high-waisted pants to compliment the jacket.
TBH: There is no "spot on" fit of the Hartmann. People wore it "too long" or "too short" and it was fine. The most important part is you feeling comfortable wearing it and not giving a damn.

I wore my A-2 totday (30°C) and got looks as if people were going to call the police on behalf of my appearant display of insanity...
 

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Kermit3D

Well-Known Member
Well... you know how women are... ;)
After a fashion show under the spotlights of the living room, and a fitting of all the types of pants I own (including relatively high waist), my wife said to me :
"It's beautiful, but it's really too short" (she was talking about the jacket...) :eek:
She changed her mind and it's irrevocable.

We both agreed and I think that if you had seen with us this fashion show then it would have seemed obvious to you as well.

As I was saying, the jacket in its current state is not adapted to my long morphology. I'm sure that adding 3 cm should not alter the cut.
These jackets came from many different manufacturers. It seems very likely that some were a little longer than others. Just like some were really very short.
Is it a big taste mistake to add 3 cm to the length of the jacket ? I don't think it fundamentally distorts the cut.

What a story... but this is a jacket I've been dreaming about for a long time. And if I have regrets and I don't dare to wear it because of measurements are too short for my size, it would be a shame.

Tonight was my birthday so we celebrated it with my family, so I didn't have time to take pictures of you wearing high waist pants, but I'll add some more tomorrow.


No worries, we’re all conversant in metric here.

I think you could add a couple centimeters without greatly changing the look of the jacket. As you said, after all, you are tall. Some compromising might be in order: a couple extra centimeters of length, and higher waisted pants.
That's also how I see it.
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
Just be careful how much length you add as you don't want to drastically change the dimensions of the jacket. These were short, trim jackets which flattered the whippet thin figures of the LW flyer back then.

I know in this day and age with low rise, hipster trousers these vintage jackets can be problematic, but at the same time don't go too long.
 

Kermit3D

Well-Known Member
FWIW this is the fit of mine. I think it works quite well.

Your fit is historical and looks quite good - just make sure you're wearing high-waisted pants to compliment the jacket.
TBH: There is no "spot on" fit of the Hartmann. People wore it "too long" or "too short" and it was fine. The most important part is you feeling comfortable wearing it and not giving a damn.
It suits you very well.
Your jacket barely covers a belt buckle, I think it's perfect.
Even with high waist pants, my jacket stops 3 cm higher than the belt.
It's interesting what you say about different jacket sizes.

Some examples of size difference :

image_2015719.jpg


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stanier

Well-Known Member
The fit in your pics opening the thread is damn near perfect and a beautiful jacket . I'm afraid I think the problem is mixing a vintage 1930's leather jacket silhouette with a 2020's jeans cut. Might as well be knights chainmail jerkin with Levi 501's. A bit like that kids game with body of firemen and legs of a nurse or whatever. Sorry for my frankness and its your jacket and you need to be comfy. But in the long term and as you get to know these pieces and their history and wear them as they should be worn, I suspect you will regret sending that gem back. There's some here that have spent years searching for a fit like that.
 

Kermit3D

Well-Known Member
The fit in your pics opening the thread is damn near perfect and a beautiful jacket . I'm afraid I think the problem is mixing a vintage 1930's leather jacket silhouette with a 2020's jeans cut. Might as well be knights chainmail jerkin with Levi 501's. A bit like that kids game with body of firemen and legs of a nurse or whatever. Sorry for my frankness and its your jacket and you need to be comfy. But in the long term and as you get to know these pieces and their history and wear them as they should be worn, I suspect you will regret sending that gem back. There's some here that have spent years searching for a fit like that.
Your reasoning makes sense... I don't know what to do anymore ! :rolleyes:
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
Your reasoning makes sense... I don't know what to do anymore ! :rolleyes:
Leave it a day or two. You've only just received the jacket Kermit and emotions always are the highest when you first have them.

Over the next couple of days try it on with a few different trousers and things that you would most likely wear it with. See how you feel then and how the jacket feels.

If this is your first 1930s/40s style jacket remember too that they can be very different in terms of how they feel to modern cut jackets. I remember when I got my first A-2 I thought it was completely wrong because it was unlike all the modern cut jackets I had worn. It wasn't the wrong fit and in the end I loved it.

So that would be my advice, take a few deep breaths, let the initial emotions of receiving it subside, and see how you feel after a couple of days of trying it on and experimenting with other things you normally wear.
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
How does a jacket evolve over time ? Does leather tend to relax and stretch slightly ?
Not really stretch in terms of lengths. It will relax though. Depending on the leather, arms usually shorten 1/2'' or so due to creasing. The body with become far more supple and conform to you from wearing it.

If you're wondering whether a jacket will get longer in terms of lengths due to wearing, then sadly the answer is: no.
 

Kermit3D

Well-Known Member
Leave it a day or two. You've only just received the jacket Kermit and emotions always are the highest when you first have them.

Over the next couple of days try it on with a few different trousers and things that you would most likely wear it with. See how you feel then and how the jacket feels.

If this is your first 1930s/40s style jacket remember too that they can be very different in terms of how they feel to modern cut jackets. I remember when I got my first A-2 I thought it was completely wrong because it was unlike all the modern cut jackets I had worn. It wasn't the wrong fit and in the end I loved it.

So that would be my advice, take a few deep breaths, let the initial emotions of receiving it subside, and see how you feel after a couple of days of trying it on and experimenting with other things you normally wear.
You are right.
I love the jacket, but I have to tame it.
On Saturday, I'm going to go see if I can find pants that match my jacket.
I'm going to try to find jeans with a vintage cut and see what it looks like.

Anyway I appreciate your help and sincerity.
 
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