Found an interesting pic today...

[Griffon_301]

I had some time to browse through some of the books I have bought in recent times and discovered this pic on the backside of a dustcover...what struck me as odd was some of the jackets...the plane in the background is a B-24 in early war drab colour which dates the pic to 1943 at the latest I would say but if you look at the jackets there seems to be ANJ-4s? Or could these be M-445 jackets?
When where the first ANJ-4s issued?Unfortunately there is no further information about this picture in the book...
Does anyone here know more...?

 

[Silver Surfer]

navy jackets worn by aaf guys in the eto? interesting, to say the least.

 

[Griffon_301]

Found the full picture in another volume of the 4 book set "We were Eagles"
According to the information it shows a crew of the 445th Bomb Group out of Tibenham...
So either they used camouflaged Liberators well into 1944 or they were amongst the first units to receive ANJ-4 jackets...

 

[Smithy]

the plane in the background is a B-24 in early war drab colour which dates the pic to 1943

It's actually difficult to ascertain from a photo which shade of olive drab (DOD41 or ANA 613) an aircraft was painted just purely from the colour in a black and white photo due to the fact that both colours faded with weathering.

However it's easier when you can date the aircraft you are looking at. That is almost certainly a B-24H and it would have been painted ANA 613 on the production line.

Olive Drab B-24s continued to be seen well into the second half of 1944.

 

[Griffon_301]

ah thats great info! unfortunately, the description of the picture in the book does not give any date the picture was taken;
but your info provides a good explanation for the two guys wearing ANJ-4 jackets in front of an olive drab Liberator;

 

[Lorenzo_l]

Found the full picture in another volume of the 4 book set "We were Eagles"
According to the information it shows a crew of the 445th Bomb Group out of Tibenham...
So either they used camouflaged Liberators well into 1944 or they were amongst the first units to receive ANJ-4 jackets...

The shearling jackets in the picture do look like ANJ-4s. As per the ELC website (https://www.eastmanleather.com/eastman-anj-p-177.html), the ANJ-4 was introduced in May 1943, so the picture could have been taken during or after the second half of 1943 or in 1944, according to the info provided by Smithy on olive drab B-24s.

 

[Smithy]

If that is a photo of the 445th then it has to be after November 1943 because that is when the group arrived at Tibenham.

 

[Micawber]

Lots of OD aircraft were still in service in the ETO right up to VE Day. As an aside I was at Tibbenham a few days ago, it is just a few short miles from me.

 

[Smithy]

Lots of OD aircraft were still in service in the ETO right up to VE Day.

Unusual for bombers, almost unseen for fighter aircraft but common for support and transport aircraft by VE Day Steve.

 

[Griffon_301]

I must do the bomber triangle tour sometime when I am in the UK again...there are a lot of smaller and larger museums I was told...

Concerning the picture...I found it on the backside of the dustjacket of the "We were Eagles" volume dealing with the timeframe from 1942 till the middle of 1943 plus it did not show the nose section of the Lib...

After all the info from Smithy and a better pic of the Lib found in volume 3 of said book series, everything becomes logic...
Nevertheless it's interesting to see the different jacket models in one pic....

Ps.: Could it be that this was a replacement crew having been given an older aircraft? There are loads of accounts of new crews bringing over new aircraft only to be assigned the older rather worn crates once they arrived in the UK at their units...

 

[Smithy]

Ps.: Could it be that this was a replacement crew having been given an older aircraft? There are loads of accounts of new crews bringing over new aircraft only to be assigned the older rather worn crates once they arrived in the UK at their units...

Highly unlikely I would say. Look at the ANA 613 and NG paint on the engine nacelles and the lack of exhaust staining and extensive paint chipping. That aircraft has not flown many operational missions and is certainly not old nor worn.

 

[Micawber]

Unusual for bombers, almost unseen for fighter aircraft but common for support and transport aircraft by VE Day Steve.

Hmmmm. Not that unusual for heavies.

 

[Smithy]

By the last months of the war most of the late model B-17s and B-24s were being delivered in NMF and weren't being painted with ANA 613 in theatre due to the lack of possibility of being attacked on the ground and the depletion of Luftwaffe fighter defences. By this time far more heavies were flying without OD uppers than were. Look how many late production B-17Gs with the Cheyenne turret you see in OD - not many!

 

[Griffon_301]

Highly unlikely I would say. Look at the ANA 613 and NG paint on the engine nacelles and the lack of exhaust staining and extensive paint chipping. That aircraft has not flown many operational missions and is certainly not old nor worn.

Yep you are right again...that bird looks quite new. It doesn't even show any personalized markings...need to check if looking up the serial yields additional info...

 

[Micawber]

By the last months of the war most of the late model B-17s and B-24s were being delivered in NMF and weren't being painted with ANA 613 in theatre due to the lack of possibility of being attacked on the ground and the depletion of Luftwaffe fighter defences. By this time far more heavies were flying without OD uppers than were. Look how many late production B-17Gs with the Cheyenne turret you see in OD - not many!

Agreed, they were rolling off the lines in NMF. But you can still see OD heavies in use in combat late on, for example the original 909. Ok given the rate of loss the phenomena was was not the norm but many had survived and were still serviceable.

Anyway, I think we are dancing on the head of a pin and pretty much saying the same thing

 

[Smithy]

Yep you are right again...that bird looks quite new. It doesn't even show any personalized markings...need to check if looking up the serial yields additional info...

The serial looks fairly readable so you should be able to look it up and see what information exists on her including crew. Just be aware that it wasn't uncommon with B-24s to only have nose art on the starboard side, so this one may very well be named but we just can't see it in the photo. Looking up the serial though should reveal any name. I'd have a search myself but too busy with work!