Forum and Ebay ettiquette.

[dadgad]

I'll let Couchy speak for himself, but I still have suspicion it has little to do with the jacket. Mind?

It has, if he hadn't bid most likely he wouldn't have given a damn to the whole thing in my opinion.

 

[ausreenactor]

The jacket issue was dealt with in that particular post. Within 24 hours I saw the ELC boots, the Werber and ANJ-4 all pulled from eBay due to off eBay offers. I had bids on two of the three items. All three items were links on the forum, posted by buyers and sellers alike. The boot seller indicated the item was not open to UK offers; however, I was allowed to bid on the BD and Service Dress if I chose? It was just time to speak up. I am just asking for an informal agreement that if you post your item here, with the intention of promoting it, that you will let it run. Abiding by the auction site's policies and user agreement, and respecting the forum guys who put their money where their mouths are. If it is not an ethichal issue, is it an issue of respect? Some people have infallible ethics it appears, others do not. Those that don't are more inclined to support others who act in a manner that they do. That will always be the case. I have been offered a hefty sum just shy of my reserve on the ELC RAF jacket, which I have not linked to the forum. I have refused it. I set a reserve. And from a buyer I sold an ELC Star Sportswear to. Rapport and trade history did not sway me. This can go on for ever, though it does look like "We that don't care, don't care". Hopefuly you guys are not bitten in the bum by karma.

Couchy

 

[Rutger]

Auction- let it run it's course till it's done, that's why it's an auction. It's not an ad.

Straightforward, easy, no one is going to complain, except the seller who's going to pay the fees.
If it is for sale elsewhere, or if one wants to indicate to be open for offers outside ebay, point out as such in the description. Ebay may not allow it, but it's being done, and at least every bidder will be aware of it.

Equal chances for all, that kind of stuff.

Put it on VLJ and FL first for like two days at the price one wants to get, and then put it on ebay.
It's 100% free, and no one is going to complain, except maybe about the disadvantage of time zones.
Hell, why not create auctions on VLJ? Would sure boost the world economy .

Don't do an auction if it's more like an advertisement.
If you want to advertise: make it a BIN, either with or without Best Offer.
If you want to (almost) break even, add the appropriate reserve or starting price.
If you want money fast: make it a three day or two day auction.

Mixing in 'cause (1) I sold this particular Werber on VLJ about in may or april or so and (2) I've had auctions seen disappear that I was bidding on.

Still thinking if I should have kept ithe Werber and try to stretch it. Don't think it would have worked, except maybe for pictures showing the perfect fit :lol:

 

[unclegrumpy]

If you post something for sale on this site, and come to an transactional agreement, I think both parties are responsible. The seller, making sure the item is being held until agreed payment terms are met. The buyer, making sure the agreed apon payment terms are met.

Chitchat, I agree with you when folks are using the Forum's Buy/Sell pages to sell their items.

However, I think Couchy has a valid point. If someone uses the Forum as to advertise their eBay auctions, then it is only fair to let the auction run it's course. If the eBay fees are the issue, then don't support eBay or use a "buy it now" that is high enough to price those costs in.

I don't think Couchy has been asking more than for an expectation to be able to play on a level playing field. The fact that he stepped up and placed bid does mean something here. And yes, it is "only a jacket", but I do not think he is out of line....I think I would be feeling exactly the same way.

If the shoe was on the other foot, I bet anyone would be just as crouchy.....or grumpy

 

[Anonymous]

If you post something for sale on this site, and come to an transactional agreement, I think both parties are responsible. The seller, making sure the item is being held until agreed payment terms are met. The buyer, making sure the agreed apon payment terms are met.

This is true, but what if what is posted is first a link to the item listed on eBay? Such would seem to be an invitation to participate in bidding for it, perhaps. Should the expectation be to be able to continue to bid for the item on eBay, or through pms from here?

As I stated "an agreement between the buyer and seller" If the item is listed on the Bay, then there should be no agreement on this site for anything, unless the seller has no bids, and cancels the listing.

 

[Anonymous]

The jacket issue was dealt with in that particular post. Within 24 hours I saw the ELC boots, the Werber and ANJ-4 all pulled from eBay due to off eBay offers. I had bids on two of the three items. All three items were links on the forum, posted by buyers and sellers alike. The boot seller indicated the item was not open to UK offers; however, I was allowed to bid on the BD and Service Dress if I chose? It was just time to speak up. I am just asking for an informal agreement that if you post your item here, with the intention of promoting it, that you will let it run. Abiding by the auction site's policies and user agreement, and respecting the forum guys who put their money where their mouths are. If it is not an ethichal issue, is it an issue of respect? Some people have infallible ethics it appears, others do not. Those that don't are more inclined to support others who act in a manner that they do. That will always be the case. I have been offered a hefty sum just shy of my reserve on the ELC RAF jacket, which I have not linked to the forum. I have refused it. I set a reserve. And from a buyer I sold an ELC Star Sportswear to. Rapport and trade history did not sway me. This can go on for ever, though it does look like "We that don't care, don't care". Hopefuly you guys are not bitten in the bum by karma.

Couchy

If there are bids, it is a breach of ettiquette to end the item early.

 

[watchmanjimg]

Wait until the day when you get hosed over by someone on the forum and see how you react. Your sensitivities may be put into a different perspective. Lots of PMs supporting my stand. I shall sleep soundly with the support of my peers.

Couchy

Dear Couchy, it happened, the very first week I got into this forum some years ago a renowned member offered here a seal brown Goatskin Aero A2 with rust knits, I don't remember if it was a set sale but I remember clearly that I made my offer and I asked the seller to keep it on hold for me for a couple of days, he did it but when I prompted and asked for his paypal adress he came back telling me that the jacket was sold to another member.
You know what, nobody knows on this forum about this unfair behaviour and who was responsible for it because I discussed the problem privately with him, firmly but with serenity as men do.

I am a straight man, I will be 43 next week, I manage 15 people at work and I have a military education since I was part of the Airborne Division in The Meritorious Corps of Arma Dei Carabinieri if you know what that means.

I don't need any peer supporting me.

Dadgad, why don't we straighten this out once and for all? Offhand I don't recall if the jacket in question was the Aero Indian goatskin A-2 or the Aero seal horsehide A-2 with rust knits, but I do recall your expressing interest in one or the other. You told me you wanted to purchase the jacket but didn't have the money and needed "some more days" to raise it. I did wait a few days, and when I didn't hear from you I sold the jacket to another interested party who was able to pay immediately. At the time I didn't know you and certainly owed you even less than the courtesy I extended by holding off on the sale for as long as I did. I understand you're disappointed with the way this turned out, and I don't mind saying that I've always regretted not waiting a bit longer to see if you would actually come through with the funds--as I'm now confident you would have. However, over the years I've had plenty of people back out on deals and I wasn't willing to take the chance.

You appear to hold strangers to an unreasonably high standard. Couchy and a number of others here can attest to my willingness to do favors for individuals I know and trust. What is truly unfair is your characterization of my behavior in this situation, particularly in light of the following:

since I'm responsible for this outburst but I do not believe to be the first nor the last to do so, I want to point out that, believe it or not, that although by now I have sold a dozen jackets on ebay, this was the first ever auction that I broke even though almost all the other times I have had requests for sales outside the auction and if I did it yesterday is because the offer was very consistent and I was in the urgency to conclude the sale.
I recently sold some 15 other objects not related to jackets collecting and for almost all of them I have received direct offers but I let the auction run its course, always.
In all honesty I think this problem is blown out of proportion but again it still remains a my personal opinion.

 

[dadgad]

The point is that you all have found a target.
We could go on for ever but english is not my language and words have limits.
I am sorry to have caused you this disappointment but was useful to understand and learn a couple of things about human reactions for this I thank you.

 

[GoodTimesGone]

If you want to (almost) break even, add the appropriate reserve or starting price. Amen. This is what I've been thinking since the outset of this thread. I have sold many items on ebay and have never ended an auction early. It's not fair to the people who have your item on their "watch" list or have already placed a bid.

 

[Cobblers161]

So Couchy I have fallible ethics?
Before making such a blase statement I'd suggest looking at the person as a whole, or at least attempt to. I could list quite readily why my ethics are sound, my moral code wholly intact and my service to the public/civic duty exemplary, but I won't as my ego frankly isn't that big. I would ask you however to refrain from making such a statement as it's an insult and to be honest i'm not very chuffed.

 

[dadgad]

Things have really crossed any limit, going into personal clashes for an innocent hobby with all the troubles anyone has to fight any given day is silly.

Keep pinning the blame on me if you like until exhaustion but please stop fighting each other.

 

[Andrew]

Yes it really isn't good to see this happening, and as I respect all of you guys I hope it settles down soon (though I have to admit being agrieved in the past for similar reasons so I know how it feels). But I tell you what, since it's obviously impossible to ever come to any sort of agreement on the right rules for this what i've tried to do is cultivate a thicker hide so that next time I miss something i'd like i'll be able to just wade through it and get over it. I'm sure it'll continue to happen as we all have different ideas and needs (now i've just buggered any chance of me wingeing in the future :evil: ).

 

[Rutger]

I have been watching this auction (and quite a few from VLJ wil have too I figure).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Very-Good-Condi ... 4aaf2d1dbc

The seller clearly states he will accept offers (bypassing ebay).

It's not entirely auction-style, but at least all bidders know what to expect.

I offered 140 USD, he wants 275.
With less than 15 minutes to go I wonder how it ends.

 

[unclegrumpy]

Things have really crossed any limit, going into personal clashes for an innocent hobby with all the troubles anyone has to fight any given day is silly.

Keep pinning the blame on me if you like until exhaustion but please stop fighting each other.

I think for most of us, "blame" is far too strong a word. In my opinion, the point here was to be able to discuss things so we all learn something from it.

Couchy was clearly upset, maybe more so than need be, but then again maybe not. Maybe other things are going on in his life that made him less easy going than he normally is.

Dadgad, maybe things were going on in your life that made you less patient than you normally are. I'll bet if you knew what you know now, you might have made a different decision.

I think on this Forum there are very high expectations, and there should be. Honesty, integrity, fair play, and trust are all very important. Different people and different cultures may judge these things on different scales, but in the end, I think the point is to try to keep things on a level where they remain fun.

 

[dadgad]

Things have really crossed any limit, going into personal clashes for an innocent hobby with all the troubles anyone has to fight any given day is silly.

Keep pinning the blame on me if you like until exhaustion but please stop fighting each other.

I think for most of us, "blame" is far too strong a word. In my opinion, the point here was to be able to discuss things so we all learn something from it.

Couchy was clearly upset, maybe more so than need be, but then again maybe not. Maybe other things are going on in his life that made him less easy going than he normally is.

Dadgad, maybe things were going on in your life that made you less patient than you normally are. I'll bet if you knew what you know now, you might have made a different decision.

I think on this Forum there are very high expectations, and there should be. Honesty, integrity, fair play, and trust are all very important. Different people and different cultures may judge these things on different scales, but in the end, I think the point is to try to keep things on a level where they remain fun.

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[watchmanjimg]

Things have really crossed any limit, going into personal clashes for an innocent hobby with all the troubles anyone has to fight any given day is silly.

Keep pinning the blame on me if you like until exhaustion but please stop fighting each other.

I think for most of us, "blame" is far too strong a word. In my opinion, the point here was to be able to discuss things so we all learn something from it.

Couchy was clearly upset, maybe more so than need be, but then again maybe not. Maybe other things are going on in his life that made him less easy going than he normally is.

Dadgad, maybe things were going on in your life that made you less patient than you normally are. I'll bet if you knew what you know now, you might have made a different decision.

I think on this Forum there are very high expectations, and there should be. Honesty, integrity, fair play, and trust are all very important. Different people and different cultures may judge these things on different scales, but in the end, I think the point is to try to keep things on a level where they remain fun.

You raise some excellent points. As for myself, I have no desire to fight with or blame anyone. I bear no ill will toward Dadgad and hope he feels the same way. My sole concern was his allegation that I had somehow wronged him in the aforementioned transaction several years ago. The facts are for the most part undisputed and speak for themselves, so I'll leave it at that. As I stated previously, if I had it to do over again I would probably have cut Dadgad a bit more slack but in any case there was no conspiracy, subterfuge, or evil intent behind the course of action I chose at the time--just as I'm sure that there was no foul play underlying Dadgad's recent decision to end his auction early although some here clearly disagree with it.

 

[dadgad]

Our issue is gone and over, no problems there, I talked about that due to Couchy feelings about this place be unique and that he said that I would react in the same way if one day the same thing should happen to me so I pointed out that something similar happened actually long ago but I solved the issue privately.

I realized my mistake, I knew to do something dark and I think that I have admitted it and apologized several times.

On more than one hundred sales this was the first and I promise you will be the last ended this way.

Are the claims of those who feel themselves untouchable that are hard to stomach.

People can err sometimes but the weight of the mistake is often in the eye of the observer though.

I also apologize for my English if I can not be as clear as I would.

 

[RCSignals]

I have been watching this auction (and quite a few from VLJ wil have too I figure).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Very-Good-Condi ... 4aaf2d1dbc

The seller clearly states he will accept offers (bypassing ebay).

It's not entirely auction-style, but at least all bidders know what to expect.

I offered 140 USD, he wants 275.
With less than 15 minutes to go I wonder how it ends.

Looks like it was auction style, did he have it with a best offer or just the statement in the description?
What bidders expect when they see that without an eBay best offer option is that it's likely their bids will be canceled and the auction closed early. So some just don't bother bidding.

Sold for $149.10

 

[RCSignals]

dadgad I don't think you personally are meant to be a target or completely blamed. I think it is the situation of what happens with these auctions, and it does seem to be on the increase. Couchy can speak for himself but I think that is mainly what he has been trying to address, and perhaps set a gentleman's agreement how such should be approached here.

The person who makes an offer to buy off eBay especially when there have been bids placed on an item is much the problem.

 

[Rutger]

I have been watching this auction (and quite a few from VLJ wil have too I figure).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Very-Good-Condi ... 4aaf2d1dbc

The seller clearly states he will accept offers (bypassing ebay).

It's not entirely auction-style, but at least all bidders know what to expect.

I offered 140 USD, he wants 275.
With less than 15 minutes to go I wonder how it ends.

Looks like it was auction style, did he have it with a best offer or just the statement in the description?
What bidders expect when they see that without an eBay best offer option is that it's likely their bids will be canceled and the auction closed early. So some just don't bother bidding.

Sold for $149.10

No best offer was offered, the only line was what was in the description, so there's a definite risk for the buyer if he makes an offer outside ebay. Well, I gues he should have accepted my miserly offer of 140 usd if I understand well that fees are appalling at ebay.
How are these fees calculated anyway?