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ELCs New Combat Combat Collection.

mulceber

Moderator
Also, out of curiosity, what Eastman's prices before the infamous year of three price increases? What did it cost to get an original contract A-2, for example?
 
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B-Man2

Well-Known Member
Also, out of curiosity, what Eastman's prices before the infamous year of three price increases? What did it cost to get an original contract A-2, for example?
Jan
This really isn’t a fair comparison based on the fact that it was a 2011 purchase price, from History Preservation Associates, however it will give you an idea of what an ELC A1 jacket that now sells for $1186.00 not including shipping , sold for with shipping in 2011.
F77ADE07-D698-4197-A689-21025298D539.jpeg
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
During the price increases of 2017/2018 I posted some info comparing the price increase for a 1940 Pattern from August 2007 (when I bought mine new from them) to the price in December 2017. The price was a 84% increase. An ELC house HH A-2 in the same period had gone from £387 to £750 which was a 94% increase.

But don't stop there, for example that ELC house HH A-2 has increased from when I did that in December 2017 to today from £750 to £950, so an increase of 27% in that short period.

Rip-off merchants.
 

Micawber

Well-Known Member
Save up!

It's just like the real estate market. If you have some good property to sell you can go into a bit of debt to get a more valuable asset.

If ELC did AfterPay they would be on a winner!

No boasting intended but I wouldn't need to save up, rather a realistic overview and practical outlook means I can keep my enthusiasm for overpriced reproductions in check.
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
I disagree. Why is it a "ripoff"? If there are customers buying the items then 'the price is right'. You don't feel the items are worth the price?

You're allowed to disagree. ELC could probably triple their prices and you'd still think that was OK. There's always someone willing to pay whatever for something they like.

However for a lot around here their prices are now bloody ridiculous - that's why around 10 members have already come out and said so in this thread.

And no I don't think they're worth the price, far from it. This latest crap with an off the rack pair of army trousers for over £300 is further testament to that, and for what seems to be a growing number of guys around here too.
 

ausreenactor

Well-Known Member
I am referring more to the flight jacket price rises, and in this case the Tanker boots. The jackets today are much better than they were twenty years ago. Two Monarchs of mine, ten years apart, are chalk and cheese.

With the new line, Mitchell camo is rarely even touched by the Japanese makers and these are unique items. Everyone knows they will sell. The wartime ELC tees are very expensive, yet adored by purists. The garments don't just happen. Research and tooling for fabric and hardware
The ELC prices will continue to rise. The second hand values should get a rise as well.

To say they are ripping people off is akin to defamation.

The exchange rate and duties put me off ELC stuff at the moment. I am fortunate to be in a secure job and on a pretty good income. I don't spend foolishly. I rarely sell cheaply either. I still want an ELC Hells Angels A-2 and my Eager Beaver 90th Bomb Group tribute though...

I won't be making any purchases from this combat clothing collection though as At The Front have me sorted....
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
To say they are ripping people off is akin to defamation.

Don't be silly Couchy, no it's not, it's an opinion.

I do think they're a rip-off and a very big one at that. You don't think they're a rip-off and that's an opinion that you're entirely entitled to just as I am entitled to think that they are. It's subjective judgment.

As I mentioned above you're one of those fans of the brand that will gladly pay what they're asking if it's something you really like and want. Nothing wrong with that at all. What this thread though shows is that for what seems to be a growing number of members here, what they are asking for their products is now too much.
 

MrBlue

Member
My opinion is that £1000 is a bit overpriced, but not out of the ballpark.

A few things to note. The cheapest you can get a good reproduction A2 for seems to be the £450 charged by JA Dubow. Bill Kelso seems to be around the middle at £770, with ELC representing the high end at £1000.

But, Bill Kelso actually allows for a lot of customisation, and that increases the manufacturing cost significantly. Having studied industrial engineering (although I don't practice it), I know the hell that custom orders can create for a workshop like this. ELC by comparison has a much easier time. Routing work through the shop is much easier when you don't have to check and double check whether you got the colour of the knits right for this specific customer.

Some of the difference would probably come down to where the items are manufactured though. Bill Kelso manfactures their jackets in Greece, which I imagine has lower labour cost than the UK does.

One other thing to note - while £1000 for an ELC jacket is "fair", I feel that the £1500 to £2500 that they charge for some of the elite unit jackets is just crazy. I feel like those probably have a heavy markup compared to the rest.
 

ausreenactor

Well-Known Member
There are plenty of capable artists out there who can replicate the Elite Unit tributes. There is a bit of a markup on the art.

And the quality control on some of the patches caused concern. The product needs to be backed up with peerless customer service Not needed if the quality control is on the ball. ;)

The last ELC Monarch is the best A-2 I have worn... If I KNEW I could get the same hide then the price I would pay goes up. For quality 'fabric' I would rarely pay retail for a Buzz M41, Tanker, Mackinaw or Parka... But I have plenty of cheap ones, new with tags!

Just need someone else to knock that initial spend out of the way!

It surely is a big factor if you can get an 80% solution for half the price elsewhere.

There will be a tipping point and for some that is now, for others years ago.... Buy smart, sell smart and 'rationalise' the collection.
 

stanier

Well-Known Member
At the risk of having a backside like the Grand Canyon from sitting on the fence, I'm kind of between the two camps on this question.

I do agree that the rapid fire price rises have been difficult to swallow and some ELC product must have very significant margins, though my personal experience and journey through life has never found ELC to be particularly cheap since the 1980's, and perhaps paradoxically, for me personally I'm probably at a point in my life where they're at their most affordable.

Some things I'd suggest though are not overly excessive for what they are. For example, the John Lofgren boots are not overly marked up and I'd go so far as to suggest are reasonably good value. ELC hold significant stock and you can get superb boots you desire (and far superior to Red Wing, IMHO) virtually next day (UK customers). In the UK you can also try https://eastwestapparel.co.uk/ who are run by a very nice guy called Jamie and he is a little cheaper but it feels like he doesn't carry such huge stock and you may have to wait. I use Jamie for Lofgren boots and his service and communication is top notch. If you want the tankers though, I think ELC are your only UK option, but I haven't checked the market rigorously. Adn let's not forget ELC service is top notch too, at least in my experience.

I will continue to buy ELC jackets and other items if I like them and the yearning sets off. I would like a Perry B-3 but whether I get one is open to question purely because of the amount of days in a UK year I would wear one. The Elite series doesn't really appeal to me - I love painted jackets, but I'd rather have a unique one rather than one others have "off the shelf" and that's regardless of cost.

And back to the service point, ELC stands by its product and there's a phone line you can call and speak to real living friendly people, "stuff" is generally in stock, and even if its not you're not waiting months for it to be made. And the ability to deliver that consistency costs money.

I do agree the demographic and customer profile that ELC target is likely evolving and changing, but I still think there's room for folk like us. But lets face it most of us (but not all I agree) with an ongoing WWII fascination are somewhere around middle age and upwards and ELC needs a business model beyond us.

And there's plenty far more expensive than ELC selling repro Vintage product. Check out https://clutch-cafe.com/ and others. How much is a Real McCoys A-2 these days? Or even an RM C-2 sweater?

For the real passionate and bargain hunters there is this forum, and I often wonder if we should have some sort of buyers guide or table for kit. For example, I think Platon's Dubow A-2, Soldier of Fortune 6505 kitbag, Bronson C-2 sweater and WWII Impressions M-42 Service Shoes are the current bargain 4 or 5 star products with any star loss been down to "variable" customer service. And the "variable" is a kind word based on how I feel with one of these suppliers right now. With ELC you just don't get these sort of woes, but you pay for the luxury.

Of course there are exceptions, Shawn's amazing work is looking really good, particularly, imho, his new shearling jackets. But Five Star is likely operating in a different economic paradigm with a likely different cost base to ELC or Platon or even possible Bronson and in other posts most of us here have also bemoaned globalization at some point but we like Five Stars prices (and product) so vote with our wallets accepting any little compromises, even though Shawn does his utmost to correct them. Isn't this what we've previously bemoaned with the likes of Levis etc? Btw, I do not mean this as negative about Five Star, the jackets are great and the dedication to the product and our customer demand deserves its recognition. I'm just trying to set a bit of context how I see it.

Now I've chucked that in I 'll go and get a coffee! Cheers all!
 

MrBlue

Member
Also, one other thing I forgot to mention.

A Canda Goose jacket will set you back £1000 and it is made of goose feathers and probably nylon.

Given the choice, I will happily pay £1000 for a horse hide leather jacket rather than a nylon jacket.

When you buy a Canada Goose jacket, you are paying for the brand. When you buy an ELC or BK jacket, you are paying for the materials and the workmanship.
 

mulceber

Moderator
Really good points, Stanier. Thinking about it, I'm also somewhere in the middle. I really resent the price hikes, but that doesn't make them a hard pass for me. If it's something I think I can't get anywhere else or it's a particularly good value, I'll spring for Eastman. Like you, I really like their Shearling, and their B-10s and B-15s look great (I don't own one, but hope to someday), but I won't buy their A-2s. The leather is some of the best out there and is the only one that nails the thickness of original jackets, but I actually think their patterns leave something to be desired in terms of accuracy. And if I'm going to spend 1100 quid on an A-2 jacket, it needs to absolutely nail it. Basically, I'm not going to boycott Eastman, but my rule of thumb is to shop around before I go to them.
 
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Smithy

Well-Known Member
Also, one other thing I forgot to mention.

A Canda Goose jacket will set you back £1000 and it is made of goose feathers and probably nylon.

Given the choice, I will happily pay £1000 for a horse hide leather jacket rather than a nylon jacket.

When you buy a Canada Goose jacket, you are paying for the brand. When you buy an ELC or BK jacket, you are paying for the materials and the workmanship.

That's not entirely accurate nor does it tell the whole story.

Despite the recent trendiness, a Canada Goose parka is first and foremost a piece of survival kit. I live inside the Arctic Circle and have one. We regularly travel to a family cottage/cabin which sits at 430 metres in the mountains where in the "colder" months it can hit below -30 and that's not including windchill. I use my Canada Goose up there because I need it. It's not a fashion statement, it's a piece of kit.

The other thing that a lot of people don't realise about them is that they are superbly engineered and well made (you are actually paying for the materials and workmanship), reinforced by another fact that I bet a lot of people don't know - they come with a lifetime warranty, something very, very, very few bits of outdoor clothing come with. An ELC jacket doesn't come with that.

The recent spate of people poncing around in completely inappropriate places like London wearing a Canada Goose doesn't actually take away from the fact that in truth it's a very specialised piece of clothing designed for extreme environments, those where incorrect clothing lead to frostbite and even death.
 

B-Man2

Well-Known Member
Just a quick observation here with regard to the resale value of ELC products. I’ve watched resales on EBay and this forum and I’ve attempted to sell ELC jackets here and on Ebay . In my experience $1100 A2 jackets and $1350 fleece B-3 and BOB jackets in top condition are not selling for prices commensurate with the increased prices from ELC. For the most part both types of jackets seem to sell in the $600 to $700 price ranges.
I realize we don’t collect jackets as investments, but the idea that there’s some type of increased financial benefit that results from ELCs price increases, when selling one of their jackets used , really hasn’t happened.
 

Micawber

Well-Known Member
I've lost track of who said what in this thread but somebody said something about this or that ELC product is loved by purists. That strikes me as saying a cover version is as good as the real thing. In my version of reality purists want original gear not modern reproductions of original gear.
 

CBI

Well-Known Member
It boils down to how one feels about "What the market will bare/bear?" In the for-profit world its the daily question. At what point is it gouging? If someone out there is willing to pay the price, is it ever gouging? I'm all for the free-market but by its very design, making a profit is part of the equation (so is greed).

Lucky I am not in the market for buying this stuff.
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
Agree with most of above...but again...our western world is not the place anymore where Co. are making $$$$. See in what deep sh..t most of the western so called civilization and world put itself...and its economy and its democracy...not getting political...
Again...money is not made in this turmoilled world anymore...but in an another „money printing society....“
Just check how many outlets of ELC, BR, RMcCs are set up in PRC, Japan, etc...
Compare with the leftovers in old Europe or USA..It reflects where the £¥€$ for all these prime makers are...They are not or almost not interested in this old western world anymore...
 
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