ELCs New Combat Combat Collection.

Smithy

Well-Known Member
Yeah, makes sense to me. Most of us will take (or leave) Goodwear prices without a fuss, even if JC’s jackets cost more than an original, because it’s simple supply and demand: if John charged Platon’s prices (for example), his wait times would be 10 years and rising. Eastman’s just making a marketing ploy and screwing their customers over in the process.
Whilst ELC are overcharging enormously, John's pricing with GW is entirely acceptable IMHO. His stuff is completely made to measure, not off the rack. It has a level of detail beyond the other makers and the customisation, choice of hides is beyond the others.

Getting a GW is like getting a pair of Tricker's shoes made for you. ELC are like paying Tricker prices for a Loake with off the shelf sizing.
 

ties70

Well-Known Member
....
What is interesting about our hobby is how the dynamics are changing, ELC charging through the roof, new crowds like Platon and 5 Star coming through. One thing is for sure I think things might look very different in a couple of years time.
Tim,

maybe that is the one good point in ELC's pricing policy:

If it wasn't for the constantly rising prices, AVI, Kelso, Platon and FiveStar would probably have never gone into flight jacket manufacturing.

But a really clever, friendly and customer service oriented guy like @Shawn Ali has smelled the business and found himself a niche! Not for all around here, but for some!

So, if i think about it: Thanks, ELC!

Ties
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
Tim,

maybe that is the one good point in ELC's pricing policy:

If it wasn't for the constantly rising prices, AVI, Kelso, Platon and FiveStar would probably have never gone into flight jacket manufacturing.

But a really clever, friendly and customer service oriented guy like @Shawn Ali has smelled the business and found himself a niche! Not for all around here, but for some!

So, if i think about it: Thanks, ELC!

Ties
You might have a point there Ties!

There's no doubt that there's a shift now with people wanting good accuracy for a decent price. This will probably increase with the financial ramifications of CV and the lessening of discretionary spending that people with have.

Whilst it's sad to see ELC price themselves outside of what I think is reasonable I'm really excited to see what Shawn is able to do and is doing. There's also room now for more companies to come through and offer repros at "acceptable and reasonable" price points.

And you make a very, very good point, thanks Gary and ELC for making an environment for Shawn and 5 Star to develop!
 

Micawber

Well-Known Member
And this works:

When I got my first "real" watch, an Omega Seamaster, it had a retail price of less than half of what they charge today. They got more expensive to get into the range of Rolex (which got pricier, too), and to get rid of that "You are just a glorified SWATCH subsidiary" image.
This is very true and is a marketing ploy as old as the hills. Product A and product B may be made in the same factory of the same materials, made by the same people for the same price resulting in the same cost price. However, market, package and present product A to retail to be affordable to your average man or woman in the street and by and large that is who will by it. Market and package product B at a higher price, label it "the best", "exclusive" , "limited" , "the best" and present it in the right outlets and hey presto, product B then becomes appealing to a whole different demographic - the well healed, the monied, the trendy ....and the snob.
 

ButteMT61

Well-Known Member
Don’t want to throw a piss pot into the fire but let’s all hope that after a period of success, 5 Star doesn’t decide to follow the marketing strategy of ELC .
I think we've got a while before that happens...honestly, I have not had someone so responsive to emails, etc. since (I hate to say) Mark Moye at Aero USA. I know all about what happened, but in the years since, only the GW Ventura from JC got me better service than MM did. Now, Shawn is really working his backside off to do well, and I can 100% support that!
 

B-Man2

Well-Known Member
This is very true and is a marketing ploy as old as the hills. Product A and product B may be made in the same factory of the same materials, made by the same people for the same price resulting in the same cost price. However, market, package and present product A to retail to be affordable to your average man or woman in the street and by and large that is who will by it. Market and package product B at a higher price, label it "the best", "exclusive" , "limited" , "the best" and present it in the right outlets and hey presto, product B then becomes appealing to a whole different demographic - the well healed, the monied, the trendy ....and the snob.
I’m not a watch guy but isn’t this exactly what Rolex did with their Tudor brand watches. Correct me please if I’m off base, but didn’t Rolex develop the Tudor brand as a common mans watch, pretty much using the same factories that they made Rolex’s ?
 

ButteMT61

Well-Known Member
This happens with all sorts of things - from tires to stereo gear. Many companies use the same people, materials, factories and sell different lines of things to match status/income/values.
If you're smart, you can find good deals on the stuff that's just as good, but doesn't have the "brand" or "label" that the socialites clamor for :)
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
I’m not a watch guy but isn’t this exactly what Rolex did with their Tudor brand watches. Correct me please if I’m off base, but didn’t Rolex develop the Tudor brand as a common mans watch, pretty much using the same factories that they made Rolex’s ?
Correct! Tudor is a Rolex subsidiary, but never produced in the same factory.
Tudor was created to provide lower cost
watches with similar quality.
In the early days, ( until the 1980s) Rolex only put a limited amount of watches on the market. Tudor was meant to compensate.
Tudor was also created to serve the Military...
Rolex the expeditions , the VIP‘s, the politics etc...
But yes Tudor is a Rolex branch with lower prices,
Apologies if the thread/post was hijacked.
 
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bn1966

Well-Known Member
Picked up a minty late '60's (so I'm told) Omega Seamaster (has been authenticated) for £120..a few years ago..cheap good stuff out there sometimes

Back to the thread...I have a master-plan to 'jump-on' Five Star jackets from Shawn at the point where the jacket has reached it's development zenith but the prices haven't :cool: should then have enough duds to last until I turn up my boots.

This journey has seen me go from cheap commercial to ELC, to custom makers & back to ELC again..checked myself then, that although I love Eastmans Jackets (still own 5) I'd become increasingly uncomfortable with pricing.

I enjoy a decent bit of cloth and since discovering Pike Brothers a few years ago my wardrobe has gradually filled with their smutter, whilst similar to a lot of ELC items, Pike prices are far more agreeable to my wallet..not saying they are of the same level of accuracy & construction but more than good enough for me.
 

Officer Dibley

Well-Known Member
Yeah, makes sense to me. Most of us will take (or leave) Goodwear prices without a fuss, even if JC’s jackets cost more than an original, because it’s simple supply and demand: if John charged Platon’s prices (for example), his wait times would be 10 years and rising. Eastman’s just making a marketing ploy and screwing their customers over in the process.
Or John could make standard sizes and models as he felt and advertise them on his website on a first come, first served basis and then he’d have no waiting list, no comms to individuals or frustrated customers.....
 

Officer Dibley

Well-Known Member
No boasting intended but I wouldn't need to save up, rather a realistic overview and practical outlook means I can keep my enthusiasm for overpriced reproductions in check.
Steve, your having gone out and purchased a WW2 jeep for the equivalent of 20 bog standard Eastman A-2’s was a better use of your spare change . The jackets, even unworn, would not realise their retail value. The jeep should, there or thereabouts.
If ya got it, flaunt it. There are no pockets in a shroud !
 

ausreenactor

Well-Known Member
What is interesting about our hobby is how the dynamics are changing, ELC charging through the roof, new crowds like Platon and 5 Star coming through. One thing is for sure I think things might look very different in a couple of years time.
If you buy from ELC you literally 'get' what you pay for. BK and Platon are generating a demand and lengthening queue now (quality/pricing), with no defined timeline.. Frustrating many here.
 

stanier

Well-Known Member
Sorry guys to have a different view but I'm not convinced ELC's pricing is out of line. Sure they're not Five Star but they're not Real McCoys, Toys McCoy, Freewheelers, Mr Freedom etc. I know and share that it hurts and frustrates they're not as cheap as they were but their business has changed and grown and I wouldn't be surprised at all if at least some of the increases has been about throttling demand to create a more manageable and consistent business / demand / cashflow. And you need the margins to be able to give the customer service they do. Platons Dubow is very likely all the killer it's reported as but whichever way you look at it the customer service sucks, and Shawn works incredibly hard, and I'd be surprised if a dream of being the next ELC and the prices they charge isn't a part of what drives him. Some of those ELC items like the camo pants I'm sure have incredible margins, and they're not for me, but compared to some high end repro denim they're not off the radar and the ELC / vintage military market will likely love the variance from high end denim and go for them like hot cakes. Lets not keep getting in a frenzy about it, ELC has grown up and evolved and, much as it hurts there's still room for us.
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
Sorry guys to have a different view but I'm not convinced ELC's pricing is out of line.
Not out of line for what they want to charge but you can easily argue it is for what you get. Yes there's other esoteric crowds who charge more for similar items but they're even more niche and specialised than ELC and usually in Japan.

£300+ for a pair of cotton combat trousers is utterly ridiculous whatever way you look at it. It's like charging £50 for a well made cup of espresso coffee made with good quality arabica beans. Yes, it tastes great and the quality is excellent but you're paying more than you have to.

£1,000 for a "bog standard", off the rack house HH A-2 is silly too. A-2s are not complicated jackets to make, even JC came out back in the day and said so. Yes there's lots of little details and differences between contracts and makers but it's not like handmade, bespoke firearms or even as mentioned above watchmaking. It's a simple leather windbreaker with a shirt collar. One of the reasons why the USAAC/USAAF pursued making them was because they could be made relatively cheaply for what they were.

And there's one real humdinger with all of this.

There's this mythology that's grown up around WWII reproduction clothing and especially repro US WWII clothing that it somehow requires huge amounts of skill and craftmanship to make, and therefore it should command big bucks. It's this that ELC seem to be cashing in on and something that a lot of people fall for.

As some of you know pre-CV I worked as an artefact researcher for an aviation museum here and have handled huge amounts of WWII clothing and kit. US combat clothing and kit is actually pretty pedestrian. First and foremost it's functional, usually not badly put together but often lacking in aesthetic refinement like military kit from all nations. As an aside the best quality military gear is probably German kit from pre 1942/43. It's streets ahead of most Allied clothing and kit in terms of design and quality.

But I digress, people have been suckered into thinking that high quality repro US kit and clothing should have to cost a lot because for some reason it's difficult to make or the materials are difficult to source, etc. For the most part it's not and they're not.

Flynny hit the nail on the head perfectly earlier in this thread. There's no law against ELC charging what they want for what they sell, and actually good on them if they can sell boatloads of the stuff for what they're asking. But there's also no law against stupidity and thinking these sorts of prices are reasonable and justified.

I'd just say before I cop any flak to take a breath and consider again what I wrote above...

Over £300 Sterling for a pair of cotton combat trousers.

Enuff said.
 
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