ELC Hide Question

[OldNick]

Hi

I've decided to try and wear my 2016 ELC RW 27752 jacket a bit more this year and noticed that the arm panels on the right arm appear to be slightly different hides and colours, the back arm panel is smoother and more of a Havana brown colour, whilst the front arm panel shows more grain and is darker brown.

I'm not really that bothered as I hadn't noticed before, does anybody have any thoughts ?

 

[Smithy]

Be happy as it makes it far more like an original.

Original wartime jackets didn't have the laser precision construction and perfectly matched hides that a lot of high end repros have.

 

[Brettafett]

I would hazard to say this is done on purpose, as Tim says... to emulate wartime jackets and also for practical production reasons.
It gives the jacket character and is a plus in my book. Most, if not all my A-2s were/are like this (ELC, GW, BK, Platon's Dubows, Aero etc...).
I recall speaking to Rob about this years ago, but I don't recall exactly what I was told, others here would know better.
Post some fit-pics sometime.

 

[mulceber]

Yeah, my BK Dubow, while not mismatched in color, is definitely mismatched in texture. I always assumed it was a feature, not a flaw.

 

[jeremiah]

The more you wear it the jacket will start to look better and better and those opposing color differences will begin to blend for less of the contrast you see now. Wear it like you stole it.

 

[B-Man2]

Hi Oldnick
As others have stated above, you have a jacket made from mismatched hides , which is how they were made during the war. Hides that are matched on today’s jackets are done for esthetic purposes and because they sell quicker than unmatched hides . You have a nice mix of unmatched hides that will age nicely in years to come . What size is it?
If your not happy with it I’m sure a few here would buy it from you. However , I suggest you keep it and wear the piss out of it. Don’t baby it and a year from now you’ll be posting photos of a great looking A2.

 

[OldNick]

Thanks for all your comments, my only slight worry with the jacket is the knits, one of them has started to bubble on the inside already and this is after very light wear

 

[Pilot]

The ELC wrist knits are real Crap-ola. The waistband is quite close in texture and ribbing, to the WW2 originals and is not as prone to tearing.
It´s easy to change the wrist knits towards something more solid and better looking, from MASH or others.
(MASH reference for the ELC RW 27752 its seal brown knits)..

 

[jeremiah]

Nothing to be done about those knits other than replacing one day. One thing you might try though if you’ve the heart is to get the knits wet with warm to hot water and then lay it out and let dry. The drying will tighten them up a little through some shrinking. But it’s only a temporary fix. They will eventually continue to bubble up and look ridiculous.

 

[Lebowski]

Hi

I've decided to try and wear my 2016 ELC RW 27752 jacket a bit more this year and noticed that the arm panels on the right arm appear to be slightly different hides and colours, the back arm panel is smoother and more of a Havana brown colour, whilst the front arm panel shows more grain and is darker brown.

I'm not really that bothered as I hadn't noticed before, does anybody have any thoughts ?

Such features make the jacket look more like originals and are exactly the ones most interested people are after, over here and not only. Enjoy, it's not a usual thing in jackets nowadays but is honored.

 

[B-Man2]

ELC knits seem to be the only complaint about the jacket listed here on a consistent basis. If it were me, I would wear the jacket until the knits got shredded, but in the meantime I would order a set from Mash and have them on standby ready to be changed out. I would suggest you start looking for a place or person to replace them using the same stitch holes from the original knits. It can be done but it requires some extra time, patience and cash. The are are a few gentleman here who are very good at it. Good Luck with it!

 

[Pilot]

ELC knits seem to be the only complaint about the jacket listed here on a consistent basis. If it were me, I would wear the jacket until the knits got shredded, but in the meantime I would order a set from Mash and have them on standby ready to be changed out. I would suggest you start looking for a place or person to replace them using the same stitch holes from the original knits. It can be done but it requires some extra time, patience and cash. The are are a few gentleman here who are very good at it. Good Luck with it!

1111% echo that!

 

[Silver Surfer]

you might take a look at the knits offered by larry on ebay. he has 4-5 different colors to match different a-2 contracts. easy to find him in the wwll a-2 section on eb. i have used his knits and have been very happy with them.

 

[Brettafett]

Good thing about ELC, if you happen to be in the UK or EU, is that they will replace knit parts on their jackets. But double they will use anything but their own knit.
I guess same can be said for GW and BK also.

 

[Pilot]

you might take a look at the knits offered by larry on ebay. he has 4-5 different colors to match different a-2 contracts. easy to find him in the wwll a-2 section on eb. i have used his knits and have been very happy with them.

I could not find seal A-2 wrist knits at Larry‘s...
saw only dark seal... (maybe out of stock) .
Dark seal does not match with the ELC 27752 waistband...
Other than that Larry‘s knits are excellent.

 

[Brettafett]

Larry is currently out of stock, I've been in touch with him.
Ended up ordering a set of seal knits from MASH, about same price, but a touch better quality I recon. I've replaced the knitwear on my AVI A-2.
I have Larry's seal knits on two jackets and they look great, work perfectly fine... although the last set is not quite as nice as the first set I used on my Cockpit A-2.

 

[Pilot]

I can highly recommend MASH.
Perfect by all means.

 

[Julius]

On the contrary to what some gentlemen appear to believe, you will not find any originals in which one panel is darker color than the other. They were definitely mismatched in texture but never in color. The reason? simple. Because they were pigment coated.

Today' modern repros, with the exception of some, are made with aniline dyed hides (i.e. not pigment). Aniline are transparent dyes and how the leather will look after it is dyed depends on how the leather will absorb the dye which depends on its pH and don't know what else factors. Animals are all different and the way their leathers will absorb the dye is different. That's why when you dye with aniline every leather is unique, you never have two skins with the exact same color. Sometimes there are color variations within the same piece of leather. Repro makers try to match the hides to give you panels with the same color but it's not always possible that's why sometimes some panel may be darker or lighter.

Modern tanneries tend to insist on aniline because aniline is considered higher quality and they can sell at higher prices. Repro makers don't seem to object that and they buy. Their jackets look OK and high quality, but this image comes at the cost of authenticity which dictates pigment.

That's my humble opinion.

And before you buy knits from MASH, know that they look more like knits from the MA-1.
They feel and look different than A-2 knits, they are soft to the touch and give the impression of being some blend and not 100% wool. I am not saying they are not wool, I am saying they give the impression. I have vintage knits that are cotton/wool blend and feel the same.

 

[Brettafett]

Agree what you say about the MASH knits, but for the average original jacket and top-tier jacket enthusiast, you have limited choice to replace knits. Larry or MASH... Or somehow find NOS WW2 knit - pls, if anyone knows of any better source please DO SHARE!
I will also say that MASH's knit are a touch shorter than Larrys, which is a pity cause you lose a touch of length with them, unless they are attached closer to the sleeve ends, which is not ideal.
If in UK and have an ELC jacket, they will do the work, but using their material and charge £. Same said for BK. Cant speak for John of GW, but sure he would repair a jacket he made, with his material.
I am not sure who supplies BK/Platon, but those are the closest repro-knits Ive seen to originals.

 

[Pilot]

Any viable alternative to MASH?
So far for repros... ( repro is repro and no original) they offer the best alternative cost/price/availability IMHE.
EDIT: There is one seller in HongKong .
His knits look good on the photos, but no idea if OK or not...
Maybe worth a try.