Drawing number 30-1415 is the standard for RAAF private purchase jackets

Discussion in 'General Flight Jacket Discussion' started by dinomartino1, Apr 7, 2019.

  1. dinomartino1

    dinomartino1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    Perth Australia
    I have posted this in another thread but as its about Finnish jackets I thought some might be interested in this.

    The RAAF allows wearing private purchase A2's.
    The RAAF regulations actually state the original 30-1415 drawing number as the standard for such jackets.
    Seal Brown and goatskin
    No hand warmer pockets
    Velcro for patches is optional

    Two companies here cater for the military customers,
    The better looking ones are by Christies, the other ones are a more modern fit.
    The box stitching on the epaulets is cosmetic they are not stitched to the shoulder to allow for use of rank sliders.
    Not that bad for US$167 new
    Not mine, pics I found.

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  2. Skyhawk

    Skyhawk Well-Known Member

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    848
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Thanks! Yes I was thinking this should have it's own thread.

    I brought up the fact that the Christies jackets have a very close looking pattern to the 1940's originals. On the tag it states that it is Property Army US Air Force and the drawing number 30-1415.

    Given that the Aussies made a few A-2's during the war, do they have the missing 30-1415 drawings and specs? Maybe we would have more luck looking for the illusive specs in Australia rather then in the USA archives, as the search in the US has not uncovered them yet.
     
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  3. 33-1729

    33-1729 Active Member

    Messages:
    199
    This looks suspicious. The label in the picture shows contract number “ac-27798” (Dubow anyone?) and that they’re the property of the “Air Force US Army”. I doubt it...
    Store link - http://www.christies.net.au/list.mibiznez?id=325&name=NO PATCH

    I did contact the Australian government about the V505 jacket and posted this in another thread (below). Note the V505 Australian “A-2” had no drawing markings, only a simple label (also below).

    Contacted the State Library of Victoria to see if they would be able to identify the V505 maker. In short, "no". They have a lead, but more like a needle in a haystack, for the adventurous in Australia. Excerpt of their response is below...

    "Unfortunately I have been unable to connect any of the listed odes to any factory, product or tender that might suggest a manufacturer. Given the apparel is of a military nature it would most likely have been requisitioned or tendered out by the Commonwealth Government but the codes do not appear in any relevant context in the Commonwealth, Victorian or NSW government gazettes.

    None of our reference works on Australian military uniforms give any indication of individual codes of any description.

    I have no doubt there will be a list of relevant codes somewhere in the National Archives of Australia but how you would go about finding it is somewhat of a puzzle. It is not indexed (but relatively few such documents would be) individually and various searching doesn't reveal any blindingly obvious series of documents."

    V505.jpg

    I suspect I'll need to have the A-2 drawing declassified, as with the A-2 spec earlier, and have already submitted a request (recall it took many months to get the A-2 spec, so it may take awhile).
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  4. Skyhawk

    Skyhawk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    848
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Did you post a copy of the A-2 Specs? I may have missed that. I did see a few excepts in your thread you posted but I would be very interested to see a list of the materials and how they were specified. Also sizing specs would be fantastic as well but thise are probably linked to the drawing documents.

    Great work so far!

    Regards,
    Jay
     
  5. 33-1729

    33-1729 Active Member

    Messages:
    199
    Thank you.

    Yes, and the documents showed the existence of the Goldsmith 31-1897, only cotton used as an A-2 lining material, drawing number is 30 (not 31)-1415, etc. File is too big to post here, so Marc kindly uploaded to his Acme site for me (post #9 below). I’d recommend reading the thread if you haven’t seen it.

    https://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/spec-94-3040-jackets-flying-type-a-2.20139/
     
  6. Skyhawk

    Skyhawk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    848
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Thanks. Yes I have read the PDF on ACME before. I would love to see the drawings though and more in depth info on the materials, hide thickness, sizing, Etc.

    One interesting fact I didn't notice before is the thread color "should match the color of the garment". No mention of olive thread.

    All The Best,
    Jay
     
  7. 33-1729

    33-1729 Active Member

    Messages:
    199
    If I was in Australia and interested in making an A-2 repro, I’d look to making the WWII Australian “V505”. There are a number of collectors interested in that jacket and legal issues would prevent anyone outside of Australia from using a “Made in Australia” tag, limiting competition. It had a collar stand construction made of cowhide using a khaki twill lining. Just saying ...
     
  8. dinomartino1

    dinomartino1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    Perth Australia
    You must not take the drawing number too literally, the jackets must just conform to the basic style of a 30-1415 drawing number, they don't have to be exact stitch for stitch replica
    They do have to be
    seal brown
    goatskin
    No hand warmer pockets.

    The more I look into this I am now thinking the RAAF does still issue jackets or did until recently. More pictures I will be posting show aircrew jackets with G1 style backs and plain epaulets that are attached with velcro or poppers to allow rank slides to be worn



    get_img-2.jpeg

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    An RAN fleet air helicopter pilot from 723 sqn in 2013.



     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  9. dinomartino1

    dinomartino1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    Perth Australia
    From the Australian parliament 1995
    Senator NEWMAN --Here is another odd one. Has there been an issue of leather jackets to pilots at RAAF Williamtown?

    Air Vice Marshal Rogers --There has, to my knowledge, not been any issue of leather jackets to pilots at Williamtown. We had a look at the flying clothing issue some two years ago, with the costs of flying jackets. The requirements for safety meant that the jackets we use at present are Nomex because of their fire resistance. We looked at the cost, because they were imported from the United States. The flying clothing people looked at alternatives and found that leather was a far better fire retardant than some of the Nomex clothing. They found that they could produce leather jackets in Australia more cheaply than the cost of the imported ones. I understand that a contract has been let with a New Zealand company, under the closer defence relations arrangement with New Zealand, to use New Zealand goat skin to produce leather flying jackets.

    Senator NEWMAN --So they are going to be uniform?

    Air Vice Marshal Rogers --They will be, yes.

    Senator NEWMAN --What will the cost be?

    Air Vice Marshal Rogers --I do not know the costs.

    Senator NEWMAN --You are happy to take the question on notice, though.

    Air Vice Marshal Rogers --Yes.

    Senator NEWMAN --Thank you.

    Senator MacGIBBON --I thought I saw the Deputy Chief of the Air Staff wearing a leather jacket once.

    Air Vice Marshal Rogers --Senator MacGibbon is dead right, but that was a gift from my children when I was in the United States.

    Senator NEWMAN --My final question is: have similar jackets been issued, or are they to be issued, to pilots at other RAAF squadrons?

    Air Vice Marshal Rogers --My understanding is that those leather jackets will become the standard issue flying jacket for the Air Force, but they will not be issued overnight. They will be issued on a replacement basis when the old ones are worn out. It is not a matter of people just rolling up and getting a leather jacket for image purposes.

    Senator NEWMAN --I would put some money on there being quite a speedy deterioration in existing jackets, and I will be watching. Thank you.





    I believe these are the first leather jackets issued by the RAAF since Irvins, they where made in New Zealand.


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    RAAF genuine issue from 2o14 made in Australia

    $_20-2.JPG


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    The arrow on the label denotes Govt property, the same as in the UK.
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. dinomartino1

    dinomartino1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    Perth Australia
    The ex australian prime minister Tony Abbott on 2015


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  11. dinomartino1

    dinomartino1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    Perth Australia
    I think these are issue jackets, I have not seen the private makers here in this style.

    20171022raaf8164169_085.t59ec5b49.m2400.xB2OlGoTb.jpg




    CEO Australian Grand Prix Corporation, Mr Andrew Westacott (centre) meets Commanding Officer No 2 Operational Conversion Unit, Wing Commander and F/A-18A Hornet display pilot in pit lane at the Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix 2017.

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    2016

    KC-30A Pilot, Flight Lieutenant (left) and Aircraft Technician, Leading Aircraftman with members of the public queuing up to see the KC-30 static display during the Royal International Air Tattoo at RAF Fairford.


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    2014 Hercules

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    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  12. dinomartino1

    dinomartino1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    Perth Australia
    The other private maker is Contact gear australia
    These are advertised in the forces magazines and I think they are sold on some bases, not as good looking as the christies.

    s-l1600-2.jpg s-l1600-4.jpg s-l1600-5.jpg s-l1600-6.jpg s-l1600-8.jpg
     
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  13. wittmann

    wittmann Member

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    88
    Location:
    Germany
    To be frank, ugly jacket, even uglier than modern day A-2 of USAF. It defiled the place of real A-2 jacket in my heart!
     
  14. dinomartino1

    dinomartino1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    Perth Australia
    There is good chance the records do exist in the national archives, though most but not all of the archives are located in Canberra, some are also stored in their offices in the states here as well.
    I would be looking for the records for contracts/ tenders and payments by the commonwealth govt for 1942 or 1943.
     
  15. Skyhawk

    Skyhawk Well-Known Member

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    848
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Interesting. The modern issue jackets look very similar the leather collar AN-J-3 jacket.
     
  16. 33-1729

    33-1729 Active Member

    Messages:
    199
    Yes, given the variety of jacket styles seen, US drawing 30-1415 may be “a” standard, but not “the” RAAF standard.

    Looks like an opportunity for a V505 repo market in Australia!
     

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