• Hey guys, I had to upgrade the VLJ software because the old one is being phased out. Please let me know of any issues in the SITE UPDATE THREAD. Thanks!

Drawing number 30-1415 is the standard for RAAF private purchase jackets

dinomartino1

Well-Known Member
I have posted this in another thread but as its about Finnish jackets I thought some might be interested in this.

The RAAF allows wearing private purchase A2's.
The RAAF regulations actually state the original 30-1415 drawing number as the standard for such jackets.
Seal Brown and goatskin
No hand warmer pockets
Velcro for patches is optional

Two companies here cater for the military customers,
The better looking ones are by Christies, the other ones are a more modern fit.
The box stitching on the epaulets is cosmetic they are not stitched to the shoulder to allow for use of rank sliders.
Not that bad for US$167 new
Not mine, pics I found.

upload_2018-6-25_23-54-53.png



upload_2018-6-25_23-56-34-2.png
 

Skyhawk

Well-Known Member
Thanks! Yes I was thinking this should have it's own thread.

I brought up the fact that the Christies jackets have a very close looking pattern to the 1940's originals. On the tag it states that it is Property Army US Air Force and the drawing number 30-1415.

Given that the Aussies made a few A-2's during the war, do they have the missing 30-1415 drawings and specs? Maybe we would have more luck looking for the illusive specs in Australia rather then in the USA archives, as the search in the US has not uncovered them yet.
 

33-1729

Active Member
I have posted this in another thread but as its about Finnish jackets I thought some might be interested in this.

The RAAF allows wearing private purchase A2's.
The RAAF regulations actually state the original 30-1415 drawing number as the standard for such jackets.
Seal Brown and goatskin
No hand warmer pockets
Velcro for patches is optional

Two companies here cater for the military customers,
The better looking ones are by Christies, the other ones are a more modern fit.
The box stitching on the epaulets is cosmetic they are not stitched to the shoulder to allow for use of rank sliders.
Not that bad for US$167 new
Not mine, pics I found.
This looks suspicious. The label in the picture shows contract number “ac-27798” (Dubow anyone?) and that they’re the property of the “Air Force US Army”. I doubt it...
Store link - http://www.christies.net.au/list.mibiznez?id=325&name=NO PATCH

I did contact the Australian government about the V505 jacket and posted this in another thread (below). Note the V505 Australian “A-2” had no drawing markings, only a simple label (also below).

Contacted the State Library of Victoria to see if they would be able to identify the V505 maker. In short, "no". They have a lead, but more like a needle in a haystack, for the adventurous in Australia. Excerpt of their response is below...

"Unfortunately I have been unable to connect any of the listed odes to any factory, product or tender that might suggest a manufacturer. Given the apparel is of a military nature it would most likely have been requisitioned or tendered out by the Commonwealth Government but the codes do not appear in any relevant context in the Commonwealth, Victorian or NSW government gazettes.

None of our reference works on Australian military uniforms give any indication of individual codes of any description.

I have no doubt there will be a list of relevant codes somewhere in the National Archives of Australia but how you would go about finding it is somewhat of a puzzle. It is not indexed (but relatively few such documents would be) individually and various searching doesn't reveal any blindingly obvious series of documents."

V505.jpg


I suspect I'll need to have the A-2 drawing declassified, as with the A-2 spec earlier, and have already submitted a request (recall it took many months to get the A-2 spec, so it may take awhile).
 
Last edited:

Skyhawk

Well-Known Member
Did you post a copy of the A-2 Specs? I may have missed that. I did see a few excepts in your thread you posted but I would be very interested to see a list of the materials and how they were specified. Also sizing specs would be fantastic as well but thise are probably linked to the drawing documents.

Great work so far!

Regards,
Jay
 

33-1729

Active Member
Did you post a copy of the A-2 Specs? I may have missed that. I did see a few excepts in your thread you posted but I would be very interested to see a list of the materials and how they were specified. Also sizing specs would be fantastic as well but thise are probably linked to the drawing documents.

Great work so far!

Regards,
Jay
Thank you.

Yes, and the documents showed the existence of the Goldsmith 31-1897, only cotton used as an A-2 lining material, drawing number is 30 (not 31)-1415, etc. File is too big to post here, so Marc kindly uploaded to his Acme site for me (post #9 below). I’d recommend reading the thread if you haven’t seen it.

https://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/spec-94-3040-jackets-flying-type-a-2.20139/
 

Skyhawk

Well-Known Member
Thanks. Yes I have read the PDF on ACME before. I would love to see the drawings though and more in depth info on the materials, hide thickness, sizing, Etc.

One interesting fact I didn't notice before is the thread color "should match the color of the garment". No mention of olive thread.

All The Best,
Jay
 

33-1729

Active Member
If I was in Australia and interested in making an A-2 repro, I’d look to making the WWII Australian “V505”. There are a number of collectors interested in that jacket and legal issues would prevent anyone outside of Australia from using a “Made in Australia” tag, limiting competition. It had a collar stand construction made of cowhide using a khaki twill lining. Just saying ...
 

dinomartino1

Well-Known Member
You must not take the drawing number too literally, the jackets must just conform to the basic style of a 30-1415 drawing number, they don't have to be exact stitch for stitch replica
They do have to be
seal brown
goatskin
No hand warmer pockets.

The more I look into this I am now thinking the RAAF does still issue jackets or did until recently. More pictures I will be posting show aircrew jackets with G1 style backs and plain epaulets that are attached with velcro or poppers to allow rank slides to be worn



get_img-2.jpeg


20130705ran8085170_032.t51d5f480.m1600.xaVYUhj-k.jpg


20130705ran8085170_014.t51d5f24e.m1600.xSstkbo8w.jpg

An RAN fleet air helicopter pilot from 723 sqn in 2013.



 
Last edited:

dinomartino1

Well-Known Member
From the Australian parliament 1995
Senator NEWMAN --Here is another odd one. Has there been an issue of leather jackets to pilots at RAAF Williamtown?

Air Vice Marshal Rogers --There has, to my knowledge, not been any issue of leather jackets to pilots at Williamtown. We had a look at the flying clothing issue some two years ago, with the costs of flying jackets. The requirements for safety meant that the jackets we use at present are Nomex because of their fire resistance. We looked at the cost, because they were imported from the United States. The flying clothing people looked at alternatives and found that leather was a far better fire retardant than some of the Nomex clothing. They found that they could produce leather jackets in Australia more cheaply than the cost of the imported ones. I understand that a contract has been let with a New Zealand company, under the closer defence relations arrangement with New Zealand, to use New Zealand goat skin to produce leather flying jackets.

Senator NEWMAN --So they are going to be uniform?

Air Vice Marshal Rogers --They will be, yes.

Senator NEWMAN --What will the cost be?

Air Vice Marshal Rogers --I do not know the costs.

Senator NEWMAN --You are happy to take the question on notice, though.

Air Vice Marshal Rogers --Yes.

Senator NEWMAN --Thank you.

Senator MacGIBBON --I thought I saw the Deputy Chief of the Air Staff wearing a leather jacket once.

Air Vice Marshal Rogers --Senator MacGibbon is dead right, but that was a gift from my children when I was in the United States.

Senator NEWMAN --My final question is: have similar jackets been issued, or are they to be issued, to pilots at other RAAF squadrons?

Air Vice Marshal Rogers --My understanding is that those leather jackets will become the standard issue flying jacket for the Air Force, but they will not be issued overnight. They will be issued on a replacement basis when the old ones are worn out. It is not a matter of people just rolling up and getting a leather jacket for image purposes.

Senator NEWMAN --I would put some money on there being quite a speedy deterioration in existing jackets, and I will be watching. Thank you.





I believe these are the first leather jackets issued by the RAAF since Irvins, they where made in New Zealand.


s-l1600-8.jpg


s-l1600-6.jpg


s-l1600-7.jpg


s-l1600-4.jpg


s-l1600-2.jpg


s-l1600-3.jpg


RAAF genuine issue from 2o14 made in Australia

$_20-2.JPG



s-l800.jpg


s-l800-2.jpg

The arrow on the label denotes Govt property, the same as in the UK.
 

Attachments

dinomartino1

Well-Known Member
I think these are issue jackets, I have not seen the private makers here in this style.

20171022raaf8164169_085.t59ec5b49.m2400.xB2OlGoTb.jpg





CEO Australian Grand Prix Corporation, Mr Andrew Westacott (centre) meets Commanding Officer No 2 Operational Conversion Unit, Wing Commander and F/A-18A Hornet display pilot in pit lane at the Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix 2017.

20171022raaf8164169_089.t59ec5b49.m2400.xTnlgSAKH.jpg


20160710raaf8485160_0101.t5782359a.m1600.xLHB5LrsC.jpg

2016

KC-30A Pilot, Flight Lieutenant (left) and Aircraft Technician, Leading Aircraftman with members of the public queuing up to see the KC-30 static display during the Royal International Air Tattoo at RAF Fairford.


20140730raaf8164101_0007.t53d86e8e.m2400.xzy1QnB6V.jpg




20140730raaf8164101_0015.t53d86f04.m2400.x6rhqlKP2.jpg



20140620raaf8526970_0027.t53a378a1.m2400.xqUcpegkv.jpg

2014 Hercules

20120602raaf8206953_0004.t4fc95be9.m2400.xnzoYLki8.jpg


20110624raaf8540638_0051.t4e02ba6c.m2400.xmaDmEDA8.jpg
 
Last edited:

wittmann

Active Member
To be frank, ugly jacket, even uglier than modern day A-2 of USAF. It defiled the place of real A-2 jacket in my heart!
 

dinomartino1

Well-Known Member
This looks suspicious. The label in the picture shows contract number “ac-27798” (Dubow anyone?) and that they’re the property of the “Air Force US Army”. I doubt it...
Store link - http://www.christies.net.au/list.mibiznez?id=325&name=NO PATCH

I did contact the Australian government about the V505 jacket and posted this in another thread (below). Note the V505 Australian “A-2” had no drawing markings, only a simple label (also below).

Contacted the State Library of Victoria to see if they would be able to identify the V505 maker. In short, "no". They have a lead, but more like a needle in a haystack, for the adventurous in Australia. Excerpt of their response is below...

"Unfortunately I have been unable to connect any of the listed odes to any factory, product or tender that might suggest a manufacturer. Given the apparel is of a military nature it would most likely have been requisitioned or tendered out by the Commonwealth Government but the codes do not appear in any relevant context in the Commonwealth, Victorian or NSW government gazettes.

None of our reference works on Australian military uniforms give any indication of individual codes of any description.

I have no doubt there will be a list of relevant codes somewhere in the National Archives of Australia but how you would go about finding it is somewhat of a puzzle. It is not indexed (but relatively few such documents would be) individually and various searching doesn't reveal any blindingly obvious series of documents."

View attachment 16778

I suspect I'll need to have the A-2 drawing declassified, as with the A-2 spec earlier, and have already submitted a request (recall it took many months to get the A-2 spec, so it may take awhile).
There is good chance the records do exist in the national archives, though most but not all of the archives are located in Canberra, some are also stored in their offices in the states here as well.
I would be looking for the records for contracts/ tenders and payments by the commonwealth govt for 1942 or 1943.
 

33-1729

Active Member
Interesting. The modern issue jackets look very similar the leather collar AN-J-3 jacket.
Yes, given the variety of jacket styles seen, US drawing 30-1415 may be “a” standard, but not “the” RAAF standard.

Looks like an opportunity for a V505 repo market in Australia!
 

dav3469

Member
Just picked up the Christies Pty Ltd version of the current RAAF approved privte purchase A2’s. Very pleased with both the quality and value for the dollar. Will try and get some pics upon return home. Obviously not a high end stich for stich reproduction, but a very wearable jacket that you can “use and abuse” without breaking the bank.

The staff at their Sydney location were very helpful and took much time providing multiple jackets u til I found the right fit. As a side note, they were very helpful in putting together a set of my wifes grandfathers RAN service medals from WWII which went missing long ago.
 

B-Man2

Well-Known Member
Just picked up the Christies Pty Ltd version of the current RAAF approved privte purchase A2’s. Very pleased with both the quality and value for the dollar. Will try and get some pics upon return home. Obviously not a high end stich for stich reproduction, but a very wearable jacket that you can “use and abuse” without breaking the bank.

The staff at their Sydney location were very helpful and took much time providing multiple jackets u til I found the right fit. As a side note, they were very helpful in putting together a set of my wifes grandfathers RAN service medals from WWII which went missing long ago.
Looking forward to the photos. Did you happened to discuss WWII RAAF A2 jackets with anyone there who may have had some knowledge and insight into makers, production etc?
 

dav3469

Member
Here are some pictures of the Christies Pty Ltd version of the RAAF approved, A2 private purchase jacket. I have been pleased with the jacket, but have not had much opportunity to use the jacket coming into summer here in the States. Quality seems to be very good. While it is not a spot on recreation like Aero or Eastman's ect. are known for, I would say it compares well to say the Cooper, Avirex offerings. I admit I am not up on the constructions methods, "stitch" counts or in depth knowledge that many have.

While I desire a top quality A2 someday, I wanted something affordable (affordable-meaning I could afford to wear it routinely for work, play and the like and not worry if I damaged it). I happened to have a layover in Sydney, and at 235 AUD, (161.41 USD at current exchange rate) I couldn't pass it up.

Sizing wise, I wear a 48 in Gibson and Barnes' G-1 goatskin. A 50 in my Aero Highwayman, and a 48 in my Eastman B-10. All those jackets were bought at various times in the past 10 years. My proportions have stayed about the same +-10lbs. over the years. In this version, It was a 52 as labled. So may run a bit small.

























One thing not to my liking, is in my mind the area where the sleeve meets the cuff is a bit "blousy". I will get a fit picture soon.

 
Top