Does it still make sense to order a Jacket from Goodwear?

[Mr. Mike]

Hi Gents!
don't want to go like bull at a gate with my thread title and please excuse if related has been discussed in this forum previously already (I could not find a direct related thread though).
I heard a lot of Goodwear's jackets being the pinnacle of A-2 production but never had one in hands myself. Their current backlog even formally communicated on GW's webstore indicates a 2.5 year lead-time which in reality might even be longer as I have heard. I was always scared off by that to be honest as I could not be fully sure to still be up to the selected maker version ordered or could even ensure to keep my shape to the measures sent for the jackets production years ago.

However, as you probably know it is almost impossible to get this assessed with Goodwear upfront. I tried to contact them several time via various channels and nearly got the impression the company only forgot to close down their web-presence but had been gone for years already. Then, out of a sudden, last December John Chapman wrote wrote me a very comprehensive, kind and personal message explaining that he is very sorry about the delays and that overwhelming communication remains to be his weak-point (which he want's to change by scaling up his administration through some additional hands). I honestly contemplated to order with him just because of his kind message to me I have to admit.

What is your experts group view and most current experience with regards to quality, affordable waiting time and reasonability to still place orders with them?

thanks very much and best regards!

M

 

[johnwayne]

First things first, you will not be disappointed with your jacket when you eventually get it, if you go for one? As you discovered, John is a great guy to deal with and his passion, knowledge, ability and accuracy for detail is why he’s gained the reputation he has and why there is the demand! I was fortunate that having missed out on an A1 he offered me an A2 he was about to put on his sale page and I was certainly not disappointed, quite the reverse as I still get a buzz after nearly 10 years of wearing, for me, a perfecting fitting A2!! It’s a dilemma of course, his sale jackets don't hang around, if that is it’s your size, and the cost and wait is clearly too much for many, a lot can happen in two and half years!!! I can only suggest keep trawling the dreaded ebay as well as here - maybe post ‘a want’ on for sale page and be specific about checking measurements but patience is a virtue and good luck. In the meantime, not sure of whether you are contract specific, but Mark at Norshor Leather is worth considering in addition to the usual suspects if an alternative is the route you opt for - like my GW A2, my Norshor A1 is excellent.

 

[mulceber]

I've been chatting with John off and on for the better part of a year. I'll ask him questions about original flight jackets and he'll get back to me when he has the time - I know what you mean about wanting to order just from talking to him. Just a couple weeks ago, I took the plunge and ordered a Monarch. (BTW, from Kermit's recent order with John, the wait time on jackets is more like 12-14 months right now, not 2.5 years.)

I think whether it's worth it to you to order depends on a number of questions:

• Is it worth the cost to have the closest repro available? Different people will have different opinions on this.
• What contract are you looking at? I don't think there are any that John does badly, but there are some contracts that other makers do about as well as he does. For a Star or a Dubow 27798, Bill Kelso(/Platon) offer comparable accuracy and quality at a lower price and a shorter wait time. Ditto for Eastman's Werber.
• How patient are you? From being in this hobby and similar ones for a while, I've reached the point where the waits don't bother me that much. So if JC (or for that matter BK, or Platon) says it'll take a while, I just shrug and focus on the jackets I have. I'm not everyone though. To some degree this problem can be solved if you can find a used goodwear, which do come up for sale. These will be cheaper too.

 

[Southoftheborder]

Quality and accuracy, second to none. As to whether you want to wait that long only you can say. He does have jackets on his sale page that are ready to go regularly.

 

[B-Man2]

I’ll echo the comments of those above . In my opinion a GW jacket, made by JC, is without a doubt the nicest and most accurate repro jacket out here today. Everything written by those above is spot on with regard to quality of workmanship, fit and appearance . The wait times can vary, but that’s the down side of a one man operation, and to be clear you want a jacket made by this one man operation, as that’s what makes his jackets so desirable to own . He and only he, hand makes each and every jacket . So that’s my advise. BTW ... what size do you wear?

 

[Officer Dibley]

First things first, you will not be disappointed with your jacket when you eventually get it....

I agree with everything you say except the statement above.
There are enough GW’s that come up 2nd hand. They must have not been right for the original buyer. I’ve had and sold maybe 8 GW’s but as i bought mine second or more hand, none were ever something i specifically ordered so my experience doesn't count. And with so many going for custom sizing, buying 2nd hand is always going to be fraught with risks.
All that aside, people have bought new and for whatever reason, not stayed in love with them. They will have appreciated the skills that went into making it but weren’t happy enough to keep it. Being happy is not 100% given.
Just my thoughts
Dave

 

[WingAndaPrayer]

Hi Gents!
don't want to go like bull at a gate with my threat title and please excuse if related has been discussed in this forum previously already (I could not find a direct related thread though).
I heard a lot of Goodwear's jackets being the pinnacle of A-2 production but never had one in hands myself. Their current backlog even formally communicated on GW's webstore indicates a 2.5 year lead-time which in reality might even be longer as I have heard. I was always scared off by that to be honest as I could not be fully sure to still be up to the selected maker version ordered or could even ensure to keep my shape to the measures sent for the jackets production years ago.

However, as you probably know it is almost impossible to get this assessed with Goodwear upfront. I tried to contact them several time via various channels and nearly got the impression the company only forgot to close down their web-presence but had been gone for years already. Then, out of a sudden, last December John Chapman wrote wrote me a very comprehensive, kind and personal message explaining that he is very sorry about the delays and that overwhelming communication remains to be his weak-point (which he want's to change by scaling up his administration through some additional hands). I honestly contemplated to order with him just because of his kind message to me I have to admit.

What is your experts group view and most current experience with regards to quality, affordable waiting time and reasonability to still place orders with them?

thanks very much and best regards!

M

You could also just buy an original jacket for cheaper. You can’t beat that as far as accuracy goes.

 

[B-Man2]

If your considering buying a GW and the wait time is what’s holding you back , then you might consider purchasing a pre owned one . As Officer Dibley advised , make sure it fits first , so make sure you know your personal measurements and compare them to the jacket your looking at . There’s a couple of GWs for sale on EBay at the moment . Also if you tell us your measurements, one of us might have one for sale that will fit you nicely for a good price .

 

[Mr. Mike]

Gents, first of all I do thank you very much indeed for getting back so swiftly and sharing all your insights and experience in context of my question!
The waiting period for an outstanding workmanship artwork wouldn't be the crucial issue I guess (except I'd changed my mind regarding the chosen model or ran out of fit for it of course), so I would be prepared to wait.

My experience after many years of collecting such jackets is though, that quality provided has been constantly on the decline since the last 10 years. Jackets I bought 10 years ago are almost incomparable to the ones you can buy today. I have jackets from that time you could hardly distinguish from wartime originals but I more and more see current examples which probably would not even gain the approval seal from the quartermaster inspector. Might be that this is just a case of subjective single fate but if you have made similar observations it would also be good to know. In the backlight of that said I always felt GW being the last remaining bastion to provide a leather quality and thickness that really does compare to wartime originals (notwithstanding the other accuracy of details) and I do hope that this will endure even a long order cycle (which is the actual caveat).

I also considered the 2nd market but as you also rightfully mentioned John is rather providing tailor-made unique pieces rather than sticking to the standard sizes of the respective maker. Pinpointing a direct match then becomes kind of a gamble.
Good point to share my measures in case one of you guys holds an example that could be considered. I'll relate to John's measure request in that case but the corresponding standard size would most probably be a 42.

A (Chest around arms): 126cm
B (Chest at arm pit level): 109 cm
C (High abdomen): 96 cm
D (Waist, pant belt-level): 90 cm (87cm at naval level)
E (Arm length): 57 cm
F (Height): 176cm
G (Weight): 77 Kg (ca. 170 U.S. pounds)

Thanks again all and looking forward to your thoughts on the above!

cheers

 

[B-Man2]

One last bit of advice, NEVER depend on the size tag as a gage of whether the jacket will fit you or not. These jackets all vary in sizes from the size tag . It’s imperative that you know your measurements on a consistent basis. I check mine if I gain or loose weight .
The saving grace which is often discussed ie “The War Time Fit”, was all over the place in WWII. This factor will let you have a jacket that fits a little loosely or a jacket that fits you trimly and both of them will look good on you .

 

[Brettafett]

If you want a GW, you may as well get in the queue.
If a good second comes up that fits, I'm sure you can cancel the order and get your deposit back (same thing if you change your mind down the line).
And you'll have lots of time to decide the contract.

Mulceber above makes a really good point about contracts.... If you get a GW then maybe get something not readily available anywhere else.

I am one of those who have owned GWs, BKs, ELCs, Aeros and the like, and get the sense that you also own/ have owned a number of jackets?
Perhaps Ive been unlucky, but I sold them all off for various reasons. Never quite happy with mine... Three were 'new' orders, one was a second off Ebay.
Great jackets to be sure, and given the chance I would not hesitate to order another. That said, there are other options that imho stand side-by-side with GW.

Also, very nb what B-Man says above. Not only your body measurements, but also any flight jackets you already own.
The more info you can provide John, the better your chances of a perfect fit.

Be careful with other guys' measurements... You could put 3 GWs together of the same contract and size tag and they may all three measure differently.
John is happy to tweak jackets to customers wishes (within reason), so unless its a std off the rack build...

Perhaps an idea, if you dont already have an A-2, is to get in the GW queue, then order a Fivestar or AVI LTHR A-2. They you will have an A-2 to gauge fit and measurements for your GW.
You do not want to wait years and spend a lot of cash on a jacket that just doesn't fit right.

 

[ButteMT61]

One last bit of advice, NEVER depend on the size tag as a gage of whether the jacket will fit you or not.

One last bit of advice, NEVER depend on the size tag as a gage of whether the jacket will fit you or not.
One last bit of advice, NEVER depend on the size tag as a gage of whether the jacket will fit you or not.
One last bit of advice, NEVER depend on the size tag as a gage of whether the jacket will fit you or not.
One last bit of advice, NEVER depend on the size tag as a gage of whether the jacket will fit you or not.
One last bit of advice, NEVER depend on the size tag as a gage of whether the jacket will fit you or not.

 

[Persimmon]

One one last bit of advice .......

Gauge

 

[B-Man2]

My screw up
Spell check is my friend!
Spell check is my friend!
Spell check is my friend!

 

[mulceber]

My screw up
Spell check is my friend!
Spell check is my friend!
Spell check is my friend!

...and autocorrect is your enemy.

 

[B-Man2]

...and autocorrect is your enemy.

YES !!
It is the Boone of my existence in all of my texting endeavors !

 

[CBI]

OP...........YES

 

[Micawber]

One important consideration is your location, if you are in the US of A then you are laughing with regards GW but if you reside elsewhere you need to factor in shipping, insurance an then any import duties and taxes you will face importing a new item into your own country. In the UK this can add a substantial amount to an already hefty price tag.

 

[Chandler]

I've been chatting with John off and on for the better part of a year. I'll ask him questions about original flight jackets and he'll get back to me when he has the time -

Now we know why he's so behind! Leave the man alone, he has work to do!

 

[mulceber]

Now we know why he's so behind! Leave the man alone, he has work to do!

Hey, everyone needs a break!