Cheap Chinese jackets at what cost ultimately?

[Spitfireace]

I don't know if anyone can see the irony of supporting cheap Chinese jacket companies that are part of the Chinese machine of destabilizing the west and ultimately toppling us by our unwitting thirst for cheap goods. It may seem innocent enough, and I don't want to be prejudiced against individual people who are perhaps just trying to make a living. Ultimately accepting goods under an oppressive communist regime that treats people poorly and doesn't seem to care what it unleashes on the rest of the world (Covid-19) is not supportable. Taking a look the other way approach could ultimately be our undoing. I can't possibly support this. I would urge others to wake up to this fact.

 

[Smithy]

Jorge started a good thread earlier in the week about those bloody disgraceful wet markets they have in China and which are almost certainly the reason why the world is in the shit it is now and also the reason why we had Sars in 2002.

This is a monumental fuck up and I'm quite sure when the dust settles on this you'll see huge groundswell for governments to make their displeasure with this practice made known to the Chinese and China, and probably through economic and diplomatic measures.

When the panic recedes there's going be millions and millions of people incredibly pissed off with China because of those wet markets and the crap they've put the world in.

 

[CBI]

Pretty political there Spit but I agree that there needs to be some major changes. For the longest time I was taking the "avoid buying stuff made in/from oppressive markets but it gets tough sometimes. Agreed though, after all of this, changes must be made

 

[Boyo]

I wont be supporting Made in China anytime soon...

 

[B-Man2]

Well ... I would agree with all the posters on this, I hate subsidizing the Chinese economy...... but to be practical ... any boycotts of goods from China probably won’t be supported by the US government for a variety of reasons .
Here’s a couple:
The US isn’t going to piss off China as they are the manufactures of most of the medical supplies,
pharmaceuticals and equipment the US is in need of right now.
The same goes for so many other products that we aren’t even aware of, that come from. China. If you can’t think of any, just take the time to look around your home and all of it’s contents . Furniture, pictures, lamps, desks, rugs, not to mention the clothes on your backs. You’ll find that you probably have about 80 -90% of all of your home goods coming from China.
The US will have to re-tool and restructure or develop several new companies before we could even think about becoming independent of China. Our own government did this to us 40 years ago as part of the “Out Sourcing “ of different items and products that were previously made in the US. And we all bought into it willingly for the sake of less expensive everything.
So while we pretty much all agree on this topic, I don’t see it happening for quite a while . Just my humble opinion.

 

[Spitfireace]

Jorge started a good thread earlier in the week about those bloody disgraceful wet markets they have in China and which are almost certainly the reason why the world is in the shit it is now and also the reason why we had Sars in 2002.

This is a monumental fuck up and I'm quite sure when the dust settles on this you'll see huge groundswell for governments to make their displeasure with this practice made known to the Chinese and China, and probably through economic and diplomatic measures.

When the panic recedes there's going be millions and millions of people incredibly pissed off with China because of those wet markets and the crap they've put the world in.

Ok thanks I found that thread. Just highlighting the commerce aspect of the issue myself.

 

[saucerfiend]

Well ... I would agree with all the posters on this, I hate subsidizing the Chinese economy...... but to be practical ... any boycotts of goods from China probably won’t be supported by the US government for a variety of reasons .
Here’s a couple:
The US isn’t going to piss off China as they are the manufactures of most of the medical supplies,
pharmaceuticals and equipment the US is in need of right now.
The same goes for so many other products that we aren’t even aware of, that come from. China. If you can’t think of any, just take the time to look around your home and all of it’s contents . Furniture, pictures, lamps, desks, rugs, not to mention the clothes on your backs. You’ll find that you probably have about 80 -90% of all of your home goods coming from China.
The US will have to re-tool and restructure or develop several new companies before we could even think about becoming independent of China. Our own government did this to us 40 years ago as part of the “Out Sourcing “ of different items and products that were previously made in the US. And we all bought into it willingly for the sake of less expensive everything.
So while we pretty much all agree on this topic, I don’t see it happening for quite a while . Just my humble opinion.

Hey Burt, doesn't our Military contract with them to make clothing and other supplies for service men and women?

Brian

 

[Spitfireace]

As a Commonwealth country Canada ex-navy, I know we don't use Chinese clothing. The ball cap is however. Nothing else is.

 

[Monsoon]

Hey Burt, doesn't our Military contract with them to make clothing and other supplies for service men and women?

Brian

Nah, US Military doesn't. Especially after that beret incident a while back. I only remember some items being partially assembled or made in Honduras.

 

[B-Man2]

Hey Burt, doesn't our Military contract with them to make clothing and other supplies for service men and women?

Brian

Hey Brian!
Hope alls well.
US military doesn’t buy uniforms from China for several reasons. Think about it , It wouldn’t take much effort for any country producing US military uniforms to impregnate them with a marking substance to make them detectable or develop a technology to identify camo patterns on the battle field or by air, thus marking US troops and making them vulnerable to air attacks.

 

[Spitfireace]

Nah, US Military doesn't. Especially after that beret incident a while back. I only remember some items being partially assembled or made in Honduras.

It's all about soveignty

 

[Spitfireace]

Wearing the products of another nation as a military force seems wrong somehow. You are addmitting your lack of sovereignty.

 

[Spitfireace]

Nah, US Military doesn't. Especially after that beret incident a while back. I only remember some items being partially assembled or made in Honduras.

The beret incident? lol.. made in not US?

 

[917_k]

Tbh, irrespective of whether it’s China or anywhere else in the world, the important thing should be avoiding where possible cheap clothing that’s knocked out of sweatshops, where the employees work in horrific conditions and the facilities cause a huge amount of environmental damage (chemical dyes washing into the watercourse etc). The environmental impact of all this cheap clothing is fairly catastrophic. At an economic and social level the offshoring of garment production has absolutely gutted domestic industry, putting millions of people out of jobs, all so we can buy stuff at the lowest possible cost (far below what should be paid for such items).

It’s a difficult subject for sure, because an Eastman jacket may be out of the reach for those on a modest income and so I’m loath to criticise someone who seeks out a lower cost alternative, and ends up buying ‘made in China’.

For me, the least impactful thing I can do, which limits environmental harm and doesn’t totally trash domestic jobs, is to buy the top notch stuff second hand or buy genuine vintage.

 

[ausreenactor]

China are set to benefit greatly from this pandemic. The number of US Treasury Bonds will increase. Pouncing on failing enterprises globally will also increase Chinese foreign ownership across the Globe. All of the borrowing (at interest) for stimulus packages will come from Chinese private equity.

Ethical purchasing of US made products will be sending profits back to China in many cases. Spending that $1000 stimulus check will be adding to China's financial benefits from this pandemic.

 

[stanier]

Didn't know which emotion to click for this post. In the end I went for sad. I believe that ausreenactor is correct. I dont like it, but correct. China in it's current guise worries me deeply. They are playing western capitalism against us, very effectively. Even making their own rules with currency for example. Btw, I'm still to be convinced covid19 has totally natural origins. Just my twopence worth.

 

[stanier]

It always perplexes me that, albeit simplistically, we in the west have all kinds of employee rights and costs and when those rights and costs bump the cost of goods up when manufactured in our own countries by our own workers we allowed outsourcing to China who doesn't give a fig about workers rights, but we save a buck and increase shareholder value. FFS!

And all the factory managers who were paid big bonuses to make it happen.

So much for Chinese communism and our morals.

When the devil shakes hands with god, we're all screwed.

 

[917_k]

I guess it’s the economic model we’ve bought into: much bigger profit to be made if you produce your wares for the lowest possible cost. Consumers seemingly love it because they get everything they want on the cheap and can just ignore some improvised worker in a distant land.

The whole model, particularly wish respect to garment manufacturer is totally broken and needs people to take a stand and refuse to support these practises. This might mean we have to forgo being able to buy brand new clothes every week, or picking up a knock-off jacket on the cheap, because we don’t want to support a domestic maker who pays their staff a fair wage. It’s simply not sustainable to carry on with the status quo.

I sincerely hope if nothing else, this crisis makes people wake up and realise that offshoring all our manufacturing capabilities abroad, in pursuit of cheap labour and maximum profit, isn’t a great idea.

p.s. I don’t think we should just bash China over this (with respect to cheap manufacturing), it’s a global problem.

 

[Silver Surfer]

at last, some depth of conversation. good for vlj peeps.

 

[ausreenactor]

At The Front have raised this debate every time they cop a 'Merica Only' post on their Facebook page. Everyone wants ethically manufactured, locally produced reproduction items. Right up until they point they have to pay for it.

Have seen this debate raised since 1997 when I found eBay, Acme Depot and the 'interwebby'. And ATF kit is, for the most part, made outside the USA. The quality and range of reproduction items are better than ever.