Bronson vs Buzz Rickson B-10

[Greg Gale]

I'm a little bit unhappy with my current B-10 made by Bronson, on one hand because I ordered a size too large I think, and on the other hand its color is inaccurate, too vivid green instead of the typical USAAF olive.

So I'm weighing my options - not in a hurry, next time I'll see winter will be in a year.

Eastman - undoubtedly the best, but absolutely out of my budget. No way.

Buzz Rickson Roughwear - The color looks nice, but I'm not a fan on the darker green knits. They should be matching, shouldn't they? What is the impression of Buzz owners? Is the quality really that much better than a Bronson? What's the color like? The price is steep, but it's something I'd be willing to pay if it's really worth it.

Bronson - I'm happy with the quality, love the matching knits, but their olive color is a bit of a miss IMO. It also costs exactly how much I'd be happy to pay for a B-10. Their previous run had the perfect color, but I sold that jacket because I thought I needed a bigger one

Should I look at a Buzz, or wait for the next run of Bronson (they're out of stock already) and hope they nail the color better? Any feedback from Buzz owners on quality and sizing? Is it real Alpaca?

Thanks!

 

[Brettafett]

Greg, as you know Ive owned almost all repro B-10s and yes, my ELC (40L) is my favourite of all. Fit, colour, just the mouton would have been nicer if it was a vintage mouton.
Its speaks for itself, you hardly ever see one for sale secondhand.

My BR (42) is a good jacket, definitely on another level comparing to Bronson. Its a slightly more boxy fit to my ELC, but fits perfect, even lengths.
Yes, I also am not a fan of the Japanese' obsession with darker olive knits. Why oh why? But it is what it is.
I bought mine from Japan, new, and a chunk cheaper than they were in EU.

Buzz Rickson's Lot,BR11133 Type B-10 Rough Wear Clothing Co. 1943Model

COLOR : 01) OLIVE DRAB MATERIAL : Water Resistant Cloth 80/3 Ply Combed Cotton Twill LINING : Alpaca and Wool Pile COLLAR : 1/2 Inch Shearling Sheep Mouton MAIN FRONT FASTENER : Mil Specs Brass BUTTON : Mil Specs Urea SNAP BUTTON : U.S. Government Department of Defense Specs. LABEL : Roughwear...

eight-g.shop

Bronson (42) and Bob Dong (40) make great jackets for sure, for the price. We all know that.
But, they are simply not at the same level as ELC, BR and RMJ

Thats why I sold my Bronson's, incl my 15 and forked out for my ELC 15. I do not regret it a moment. My ELC B-15 has been a go-too jacket in colder weather for 2 seasons now and is a firm favourite.
I would replace both my ELC 10 and 15 without hesitation.

Note: My RMJ Stagg was a great B-10 also (40), but I found a 40 on the large side for me, also found it super warm, and again the darker shade knits put me off.
Personally, much happier with my ELC.

You could look for new or secondhand RM and RMJ in Japan, Buy or other places.

 

[Greg Gale]

Thanks Brett! RM is quite expensive too, I'd rather go for BR.

So despite the darker knits it's a better deal than a Bronson?

How is the fit? Could you have gone with a 40 (not length wise, I know you like your jackets longer)

 

[Brettafett]

Personally, Id buy an ELC before a RMJ

Yes, quality and materials on the BR are worth the extra money, just mo
Theres a 40 on Buyee at the mo, secondhand.

Fit-wise, I could not go smaller. My 42 fits beautifully and I can comfortably wear a tee-shirt to light sweater/ jersey under. Lengths are surprisingly perfect.
I do know that some other 42s of the same jacket seem to come up smaller and shorter (Nick?)
When I asked ELC for measurements of the Buzz B-10 in a 42 (BR EU), they came up smaller than mine.
So might account to seasons/ year made, but whatever you find, carefully check measurements.

 

[Nickb123]

Personally, Id buy an ELC before a RMJ

Yes, quality and materials on the BR are worth the extra money, just mo
Theres a 40 on Buyee at the mo, secondhand.

Fit-wise, I could not go smaller. My 42 fits beautifully and I can comfortably wear a tee-shirt to light sweater/ jersey under. Lengths are surprisingly perfect.
I do know that some other 42s of the same jacket seem to come up smaller and shorter (Nick?)
When I asked ELC for measurements of the Buzz B-10 in a 42 (BR EU), they came up smaller than mine.
So might account to seasons/ year made, but whatever you find, carefully check measurements.

Brett, you’re right - they come up pretty often on Yahoo Japan. I’d dare not wear anything smaller than a 44 however- in my experience the Superior Togs was cut a bit more to my liking than the RW. A little longer in proportions. My RW is short - borderline too short- but I’ve stopped worrying about it.

I actually may trade out my RW back for the Superior Togs. Will have to consult my brother in law on the matter. I’m not sure if they’ve gone as far as to differentiate the wool lining between the different models, but the wool feels different from one another…I suspect the RW has had a wash. The Superior Togs seemed to hatch from a slightly better egg. All subjective thoughts here.

All-in-all I think it would be a mistake to not at least peruse the Buzz B-10s that come up for sale in Japan. They’re made well. Buzz does an exceptional job for what it does.

Still bugged by the comments about BR using a lot of glue in construction making repairs difficult. Not sure how true that is, but it’s something to maybe take into consideration.

 

[Brettafett]

Greg, look at this!
Maybe ask for measurements. If I didn't already have one, Id have bought this already...

B-10 FLIGHT JACKET BY BUZZ RICKSON'S - UNWORN CONDITION! | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for B-10 FLIGHT JACKET BY BUZZ RICKSON'S - UNWORN CONDITION! at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Greg Gale]

@Brettafett if I look at the measurements on the history preservation site, the ELC and BR have similar chest p2p. Your size 40 ELC fits you well with 23 inches, but your Buzz is size 42 with 24 inches? Do you feel the difference?

@Nickb123 yes I see the ST has an inch longer sleeves.

Also my ideal sleeves + shoulder is 69 inches when wearing an A-2, and it's the same on the BR - interestingly the shoulders and sleeves are the same on the size 40 and 42 according to that site.

But the Japanese sites indicate different measurements and it's really hard to decide, because I don't know how thick the lining is, it's not an A-2...

 

[mulceber]

Eastman - undoubtedly the best, but absolutely out of my budget. No way.

Buzz Rickson Roughwear - The color looks nice, but I'm not a fan on the darker green knits. They should be matching, shouldn't they? What is the impression of Buzz owners? Is the quality really that much better than a Bronson? What's the color like? The price is steep, but it's something I'd be willing to pay if it's really worth it.

Disagree, actually. I have a Buzz B-15 and Natalie has the ELC B-17 (so, basically a B-15, but for women). The Eastman is nice, but imho, Buzz is head and shoulders above (sorry Nat). Better mouton by a country mile, a repro blackened Talon instead of the Eastman-marked zippers, and a throat latch that is actually functional (on Eastman's you have to fight and struggle to get the throat latch to close). If I was buying another repro cloth jacket, I'd go Buzz again, hands down.

 

[Greg Gale]

Disagree, actually. I have a Buzz B-15 and Natalie has the ELC B-17 (so, basically a B-15, but for women). The Eastman is nice, but imho, Buzz is head and shoulders above (sorry Nat). Better mouton by a country mile, a repro blackened Talon instead of the Eastman-marked zippers, and a throat latch that is actually functional (on Eastman's you have to fight and struggle to get the throat latch to close). If I was buying another repro cloth jacket, I'd go Buzz again, hands down.

Thanks for your input. What still bothers me are the dark green knits, it's something I almost never see on originals.

 

[asiamiles]

Thanks for your input. What still bothers me are the dark green knits, it's something I almost never see on originals.

The knits on BR's Oldin Dennis repro - which is often considered their best due to the use of End Zone Twill, which was not used for any other B-10s - appear to match the body pretty closely. I used to have one but sold it; my dislike of B-10s stems from them only looking good when zipped up.

 

[Brettafett]

@Greg Gale Both my ELC and BR 10 measure 23" pit to pit. My Buzz 10 42 does not equate to HP or Buzz EU measurements. Its slightly longer also.
I was on the fence for weeks, because I couldn't believe it actually had 26" sleeves... But it does
Also, the buzz is slightly thicker and heavier.

Also, I handled a BR 10 at Son of Stagg here in London earlier this year (they currently only have B-15s, L-2s and Tankers now), 40 and 42 and it was definitely not quite the same jacket, and definitely smaller. Thats why I recon you have to get whomever has it, to measure it up.

@mulceber I will concede that ELC's mouton is not the nicest, even AVI has much better mouton. Also, my ELC 10's zipper is not as nice or as sturdy as the BR. The knits are fine and still strong, but the BR's knits are superior. The quality on both jackets is super, but Id agree, slightly better all round on the Buzz.
(Side note. Ive had my ELC B-10 since 2004/5 and its still going strong with no issues, besides that damn-ass dry cleaner who poked a pin in the shell)
That aside, I prefer the fit, profile, shell colour and matching knits of the ELC.

I will add this, BR and RMJ make qualirty jackets for sure, each to thier own, but hell... Tried on a new 42 Buzz 15 the other day and it felt like a tank. Heavy and overkill. The knits were way darker than the olive shell. Yes, better mouton although rather dense, not as fluffy as my current BR 10....

I love both my jackets and if its super chilly, besides the ELC 15, Id wear the Buzz 10. For comfort my ELC 10 for me wins.

 

[mulceber]

Sorry, I realize in retrospect that my post came off as pretty dismissive of the Eastman. That's not my intent. The initial post just threw me a bit, because to my mind (and, FWIW, Charles DiSipio's as well), they're very much equals on the cloth jacket scene.

The difficulty of closing the throat latch on Eastman cloth jackets is also something of a pet peeve of mine, since being able to close the collar is REALLY USEFUL where I live, and I suspect this design flaw in the Eastman version exists only because the throat latch isn't very useful in Gary's climate.

 

[ausreenactor]

The knits on BR's Oldin Dennis repro - which is often considered their best due to the use of End Zone Twill, which was not used for any other B-10s - appear to match the body pretty closely. I used to have one but sold it; my dislike of B-10s stems from them only looking good when zipped up.

Had one as well and haven't seen on in a 42 since. Great jacket...

 

[Greg Gale]

Can anyone please share fit pics of their Buzz Rickson B-10, especially sizes 40 and 42?

 

[Brettafett]

Buzz Rickson Roughwear 1943 pattern B-10
Size 42
Shoulders - 18.75"
Back - 25.5"
Pit toi Pit - 23"
Sleeve (outer curve) - 26"
Layered with a l/s sweater. Fits comfortably. The alpaca lining adds thickness. No way I could wear a 40.

 

[Greg Gale]

Thanks Brett! Interesting, most websites specify 23 p2p for the size 40 and 24 for the 42.
Also, those sleeves are really long, combined with wide shoulders.

It's hard to use measurements for thick jackets, because you don't know how it feels with all the lining and stuff until you try it on.

Has Bill Kelso ever made B-10s?

 

[Brettafett]

Yes, these are tricky. The lining adds to bulk.
I think the jacket I got was of a specific run, 1943 Roughwear... The Buzz 10 and 15s I've seen in hand at Son of Stagg here in London over the past couple of years are definitely smaller/ shorter.
I can not put on a B-10 40 and the 15 is a struggle. And size 42 were both were way to short for me... Maybe 24.5 to 25" sleeves, but I didn't measure obviously.

I think you have to try, if you can easily return.
Or ask the seller to take careful measurements. Then take into account the lining.

No BK Ive ever seen, but John has and looked great.

 

[Kermit3D]

No BK Ive ever seen, but John has and looked great.

To illustrate your point :

Good Wear Leather Coat Company — Sale Hercules Italian Horsehide Jacket

www.goodwearleather.com

 

[Kermit3D]

I'm following with a lot of interest this thread. @Greg Gale , I'm asking myself the same questions as you regarding the choice of a B-10 in the right size... I too would like to avoid knits with too much contrast with the color of the jacket (I totally exclude red knits).
The B-10 ELC looks great... but it's too expensive and you can't find it used.
Buzz Rickson seems like a good option, but you have to make sure of the actual jacket dimensions.
Bronson / Bob Dong looks good... but if I only have one B-10, I'd rather bet on a more accurate jacket.
I've seen some very nice B-10 Real McCoy on yahoo japan. I might dig in that direction.
The B-10 Goodwear seems perfect ! I'll ask about the price... but two years is a long time (for a B-10).

 

[mulceber]

The really fun detail about John’s B-10 is that he’s copying a contract by the original Good Wear Leather. It’s on my list as well.