Bill Kelso timeline of leather, with a little wear thrown in...

Discussion in 'Repros' started by Skip, Jan 25, 2018.

  1. B-Man2

    B-Man2 Well-Known Member

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    2,247
    Thanks for the info skip!
     
  2. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    1,504
    Great stuff!
    thx for sharing.
     
  3. M3Cavalry

    M3Cavalry Member

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    90
    Alright boys, got an ANJ3 in the liberty russet on the way.
     
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  4. B-Man2

    B-Man2 Well-Known Member

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    How about posting some photos and measurements when it arrives?:)
     
  5. M3Cavalry

    M3Cavalry Member

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    I think that's the least I can do after the input I've received here. It'll be a good three months' wait, though.
     
  6. Skip

    Skip Well-Known Member

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    Bloomin' heck, 3 months?? They must have a lot of orders in the lineup. Originally it used to take no longer than a month if they had the hides. I guess it must be a good sign that business is going along ok. Looking' forward to those pics Clark.
     
  7. Art

    Art Active Member

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    I was wondering exactly the same and they offer a great line of spec options and still use the red thread on their star sportswear A2 whereas eastman have been using their standard thread throughout...Nice one Art
     
  8. M3Cavalry

    M3Cavalry Member

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    90
    Just got an envelope in the mail from Bill Kelso. They never responded to my request for samples, but evidently just sent them. Smell great. I assume they’re all Liberty as that is what I’d requested.

    Now I am torn between the Russet and the dark seal. Doesn’t make sense, but there you go. Thinking of asking BK to just use whichever of the two colors has the best grain, character, etc. I’d be thrilled with either. Thoughts?
     
  9. M3Cavalry

    M3Cavalry Member

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    90
    Here are the three sample bits. Background is my 2015 Eastman Star Sportswear (which I had always thought was dark seal, but I guess not).

    8CA9F879-D1EC-45B3-8AAE-64AB173981BF.jpeg
     
    Skip likes this.
  10. Skip

    Skip Well-Known Member

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    Hi Clark,

    Good news you got the samples, but yeah sometimes doesn't make it any easier. Does there seem to be less red in them than what my jackets have in the, i.e. I posted before?

    BK dark Seal has always appeared to be darker than the wartime darker seals, in fact its almost black. The russet will always show up the grain more, as the lighter colour is just plainly more visible, but it will also look great in the darker seal. I'm not going to cloud your judgement on which one would be better mate as thats a personal choice, but apart from hide colour, it depends what Knit colour your going to choose as to which is going to accentuate the look? Are you one of those contrasting knit type of people?
     
  11. M3Cavalry

    M3Cavalry Member

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    No contrasting knots for me. The dark seal is obviously a much nicer, richer, more supple leather than the other two bits they sent. I’m hoping that’s an anomaly and the Russet jacket is the same as the dark seal quality here.

    Keeping order at Russet. I don’t see any red in it. I’ve asked for the most grainy, characterful leather they’ve got, so we’ll see.
     
  12. Skip

    Skip Well-Known Member

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    Reckon the Russet will look great. Looks like they've changed the formula in their Liberty to more closely resemble war time colours.

    Looking' forward to your pics mate and seeing what you think of the hides.
     
  13. Skip

    Skip Well-Known Member

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    Here's some more pics of my jackets with the 'newer' Liberty HH swatches courtesy of M3Cavalry, who was gracious enough to post them to me. Colours obviously are difficult to capture, the bottom photo is probably more accurate in the jacket colours, but the dark seal swatch (the darkest one there on the left) has a blue tinge to it. If your looking for a more accurate colour M3Cav has nailed it in his photos. The purpose of me posting these is to compare to the older BK hides and my recent ELC Werber in Warhorse.

    Please bare in mind that my jackets have considerable wear and have become lighter, showing the base tones underneath the aniline finish. For those just joining in, jackets are clockwise from top left AN-J-3 in Victory Horsehide Dark Seal now not available, ELC Werber in warhorse russet, BK 1402 Werber in antique russet no longer available, my wife's Duke in early Liberty horse russet. The swatches from left to right are, Dark Seal, Seal, and Russet:

    DARK SEAL: On close inspection the dark seal does exhibit a very dark brown colour (same as displayed on the leathers section on the BK website). Unfortunately it is not representing here, but you can see by the tones alone that the newer Liberty Dark Seal is much darker and believe me less red than my AN-J-3 is showing which in the pic is accurate to real life, the earlier BK hides had red tones to them, even the early liberty as displayed here accurately to real life in my wife's Duke (bottom jacket). The dark seal shows were and grain very well, and would make an excellent contrast if paired with a reddy tone knit as in a Dubow or Aero contract.

    SEAL: The second image shows seal midway between the 3 swatches in tone, the colour in the pic is fairly accurate and reminds me of the seal colour you often get with navy m422a's. Its reasonably dark almost the colour of dark chocolate. Its closer to Cav's ELC Star, and much darker than their Warhorse. IMO it would make a nice contrast with those jacket contracts that have lighter coloured mid brown or caramel knits. I've scrunched up the swatch and it appears to take on nice grain, showing depth of the grain in the colour.

    RUSSET: Naturally the lightest of the three, and quite different from the two russets of the earlier BK hides, the Werber on the left and the Duke below. This russet is close in colour to milk chocolate (a good brand please, Lindt maybe?) and is slightly darker in real life than displayed here in the pic. You can see that it is slightly lighter than ELC Warhorse. So I would say its on a par as a mid to dark russet, and of course will wear lighter.

    All these swatches show a balanced tonal range, meaning as they are at present with no wear they show no great swing to any particular colour tone i.e. red or green. As I've mentioned before their early hides had a warm red tone, these newer versions are quite neutral in comparison and truer to a brown colour. The only exception, minor as it is, is that the russet is a smidge warmer.

    Later I'll repost the swatches with pics of what they appear like when subject to some subtle wear, as in a timeworn option.


    DSC_0382.jpg

    DSC_0386.jpg
     
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  14. M3Cavalry

    M3Cavalry Member

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    Skip, thanks. Did you HWT your three jackets?
     
  15. Skip

    Skip Well-Known Member

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    Only the AN-J-3 Clark, With that I wore it in the shower (in Summer mind) and wore it till it pretty much dried out, but not in direct sun. I then wrangled it some and hung it on a thick coat hanger till it was completely dry, about a week, and then applied some Pecards antique leather dressing to bring back the suppleness, you can use vaseline. The Victory horse tended to get real squeaky and stiff after drying out. Most of the wear you see on it and all the other jackets bar Megans Duke is due to wearing them often and doing everything. Bare in mind that the BK jackets I've had for over 5 years and the ELC Werber almost a year. Even the ELC is developing some nice grain structure to do constant wear and abrasion in some of the work I do in it.
     
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  16. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    1,504
    Great stuff...
    Maybe already discussed...but where is BK manufacturing? UK, Greece? or elswhere?
     
  17. Skip

    Skip Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Greece
     
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  18. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    OK, thx. but very confused...
    There is a B K A-2 for sale on the fleebay ( Item 253519183969) where the add says origin UK and the jacket even has an Arcoleather neck label.
    Does BK have an agreement with Ken or John?
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
  19. Art

    Art Active Member

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    I noticed this a while back my self and assumed that bk wrote ARCO instead of AERO and that the jacket was based on a contract by Aero of beacon New York ...I'm prob wrong as I'm very fresh at all this so hopefully someone will clear it up with the actual reason..? Nice one Art
     
  20. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    1,504
    Correct...Arcoleather...but origin UK...( on the yellow paper tag).
     

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