• Hey guys, I had to upgrade the VLJ software because the old one is being phased out. Please let me know of any issues in the SITE UPDATE THREAD. Thanks!

Bill Kelso timeline of leather, with a little wear thrown in...

Smithy

Well-Known Member
I don't think you're wasting your money, in fact I never said that or intimated as much. I was pointing out that some including yourself seemed to think that even the very high end repros were somehow 100% precise facsimiles of the original contract A-2 jackets when they're not.

I think I've posted most of my jackets on here over the years. I work as an aviation artefact researcher now and find that because I work with these things I don't have as much of an urge to buy original items myself anymore, apart from smaller WWI RFC and RAF items.
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
Thx Smithy, please help me with links to your very recent posts with jackets.
Thx a lot... appreciate.
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
You do realise you can search via a member's profile or are you trying to be obtuse?

I doubt you'll be very interested though as I only own repros. Doing museum work I have no urge to buy originals myself. If you want to look at originals you'd be better off searching Andrew's profile, or Burt's, or Grant's, etc, etc, although something suggests that that wasn't the underlying intent of your last post.
 

jeremiah

Well-Known Member
These are the only A2 jackets I own. ELC monarch, BK dubow and BK arco from left to right. Not sure how accurate they are in terms of patterns, hardware or even color. But I love all three and am happy with them. One day I really would like to get one made to fit just for me. But these three are what he QM threw at me. Ha.
A6E488CE-B0DC-4F2A-8029-22A61F4C5316.jpeg
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
You do realise you can search via a member's profile or are you trying to be obtuse?

I doubt you'll be very interested though as I only own repros. Doing museum work I have no urge to buy originals myself. If you want to look at originals you'd be better off searching Andrew's profile, or Burt's, or Grant's, etc, etc, although something suggests that that wasn't the underlying intent of your last post.
Hi Smithy,
I am ( we are) interested in all especially b-cause apparently you are in a position to compare and value low and upper repros ( repros you have) ..so please send us/ me www’s or links...we want to se yours..not others...sorry to bother you...just for the sake and fit of it..,
You seem to be the expert in all ups and downs ( price class and repro... quality..)..so please send your assests. you can find mine and others here easily...sorry if Iam too dumb to find yours...again sorry..
Anti facts, ...my son is right now selling all our ww2 German and French antifacts/ Legacy from over of 120 year French -German legacy..in Alsace/ Lorraine/ Banat / Donauschwaben ...etc... 4 Knight crosses with Mappen plus a lot of others..... and maybe we can link
Thx a lot...
Cheers
( sorry my flight has a very bad wifi connection)
 
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Pilot

Well-Known Member
These are the only A2 jackets I own. ELC monarch, BK dubow and BK arco from left to right. Not sure how accurate they are in terms of patterns, hardware or even color. But I love all three and am happy with them. One day I really would like to get one made to fit just for me. But these three are what he QM threw at me. Ha.
View attachment 9330
J. great stuff, thx for sharing and beeing with us.
 

M3Cavalry

Member
These are the only A2 jackets I own. ELC monarch, BK dubow and BK arco from left to right. Not sure how accurate they are in terms of patterns, hardware or even color. But I love all three and am happy with them. One day I really would like to get one made to fit just for me. But these three are what he QM threw at me. Ha.
View attachment 9330
What leather are your two BKs made with? Think I saw one was Victory...what’s the other one? Thanks.
 

jeremiah

Well-Known Member
Gary. I agree. I think another reason is the fact that at higher altitudes and the cold air up there, veg tanned leather tends to get a bit stiffer. This is due to the oils in the hide. With chrome tanned, those are completely eradicated as the chromium saturates the cells in the hide. This is why chrome tanned leathers are soooo soft and flexible without needing broke in. Veg tanned, even bridal leather which is stuffed with oils and waxes and Patinas like no other is quite stiff till broken in.

Calvery. The arco on the right is victory hide. The middle one which is the dubow is horse hide from a tannery in Japan that supposedly messed up the finish BK had asked for and they did not go with that tannery. It predates the victory and liberty.
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
Hi Smithy,
I am ( we are) interested in all especially b-cause aaperently you can compare and value of low and upper repros ( you have) ..so please send us/ me www’s or links...we want to se yours..not others...sorry to bother you...just for the sake and fit of it..,
You seem to be the expert in all ups and downs ( price class and repro... quality..)..so please send your assests.
Thx a lot...
Cheers
( sorry my flight has a very bad wifi connection)
If you want to look at my posts you can search them through my profile yourself. I've got better things to do (right now I'm writing a work proposal) than to buggerise round posting links for you when you're perfectly able to find things yourself. Plus your incessant nagging for such over the last few posts looks like you're just trying to be a pain in the arse - and you're doing a bloody good job at it.

BTW I'm not an expert at all, especially when it comes to US flight kit (RFC and RAF history and kit is my speciality), but I have come into contact with quite a bit through my work so can tell that an original A-2 is not made to the same level of finesse as something like a GW. You obviously disagree so why don't you leave it at that.
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
Welcome in the Club of the tolerant accepting others opinion Smithy..
Peace...
F7492FDE-8377-42AF-BFD3-3A0B58641713.jpeg

Flying to Saigon ..sorting out a few other “ Artifacts “...

BTW...did not find any of Smithy’s jacket’since 2008 posts.. ( except a few hostile Aero posts) . please assist and send links. Thx a lot.
 
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M3Cavalry

Member
Gary. I agree. I think another reason is the fact that at higher altitudes and the cold air up there, veg tanned leather tends to get a bit stiffer. This is due to the oils in the hide. With chrome tanned, those are completely eradicated as the chromium saturates the cells in the hide. This is why chrome tanned leathers are soooo soft and flexible without needing broke in. Veg tanned, even bridal leather which is stuffed with oils and waxes and Patinas like no other is quite stiff till broken in.

Calvery. The arco on the right is victory hide. The middle one which is the dubow is horse hide from a tannery in Japan that supposedly messed up the finish BK had asked for and they did not go with that tannery. It predates the victory and liberty.
Interesting. Looks nothing like Skip’s. It’s dark seal too?
 

B-Man2

Well-Known Member
Jeremiah
I like all of your jackets , they all look like “they’ve been there”. No more worrying about how to keep the wrinkles out of the hide. You wear them well.
Cheers
B-Man2
 

Skip

Well-Known Member
Clark / Jeremiah, I'll put the earlier pics from page one up again so you can compare them with J's on this page, they are obviously in subdued, non sunlight lighting so the colours saturate a little but you can see the similarities. My AN-J-3 was hot water treated when new dried in the summer heat while I wore it all day. It had a seriously squeakiness to the leather so I ever so lightly gave it a light sand with some 1000 grit wet and dry auto sanding paper kept dry, its a thick hide, would never do this on a thinner hide; then a liberal coat of peards. That was a month after I first received it 5 going on 6 years ago. This did the trick with the squeakiness and also revealed more of the undertones. It was then stuffed with pillows and used as a punching bag until it lost it's stiffness. a couple of months. After that its just had 5 years of solid hard wear to look how it does now; worn hiking, working around the house, in the rain.

As time goes by J reckon yours will start developing similar characteristics, but like you said it could be a different batch with a little less red. Time and wear will tell. The bottom pic looks very similar to yours in tone

DSC_0245 1.jpg
DSC_0245 1.jpg

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