• Hey guys, I had to upgrade the VLJ software because the old one is being phased out. Please let me know of any issues in the SITE UPDATE THREAD. Thanks!

AVI LTHR Bronco updated 2019 version

Monsoon

Active Member
All that drivel Charles wrote about artisans and all that nonsense meant to make you think of some kinds of honest salts of the earth toiling away in a fading, noble pursuit of oldie-worldie, workmanship is quite frankly, a complete bunch of arse.
This is actually a true statement. The people that are interested in making items like leather flight jackets and the like are pursuing an old world style of art that not many want to do.


ELC are whacking their prices up because they think that they can because they think that people will pay it.
This is also a true statement. I noticed that things started to go sideways with ELC when they branched out into the whole ELMC/TSPTR deal. It looked like they were aiming for the whole hipster crowd and figured they could charge whatever they wanted to those knuckleheads because they would spend it.

Sure, it's a free market and they can do what they want. As I've said before, my church-going Grandma always said, "It's his cow and he can f**k it however he wants."

I doubt Gary at ELC is spending sleepless nights, worrying if I'm gonna buy an Eastman A-2 or B-3. That's fine with me; Aero makes a nice jacket, and Shawn is doing wonders with the Fivestar jackets. AVI, too.
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
I've found this whole ELC "yet another price hike" thing rather amusing and was just as amused to see that Charles has responded to a post by a chap called Big J over at the Salon du Chapeau who had suggested that there might be a bit of "price-gouging" going on (that obviously raised a few hackles).

I actually wonder whether Charles has an account here and has been reading what's been going on over here as he has now in his new justification spiel completely left out any references to businesses in the UK and Japan having to charge so much (funny that) and moved onto trying to make out that ELC's profit margins are nothing compared to others.

Now he seems to be going on about Avirex, Alpha, Sears, Ralph Lauren, etc, etc and how their profit margins are greater than ELC. Well of course they're bigger than ELC, they deal with much higher volume and are less niche so their production costs are lower, Economics 101 FFS! This sort of argument has nothing to do with ELC bumping their prices up 3 times over the last year or so.

Monsoon, you've actually hit the nail on the head. The ELMC thing was the move that showed that they wanted to reposition the brand to a different and higher paying market, buoyed by the recent increase in interest in vintage workwear, arguably growing from the global hipster scene's interest in old things.

What pisses me off is how people will buy these sorts of bullshit excuses from Charles for what simply translates as pure, hyper aggressive pricing increases over short time frames because they think they can do it and because they think they can tap into a higher paying market and position their products as such.

It's actually very simple. If the price rises were purely due to as Charles says "imbalanced cost-to-profit ratio(s)" which would obviously grow out of regional and industry specific factors then a similar company such as Aero operating in the same national (and correspondingly commercially legislated, governed and subject to largely the same industry affects) environment should be having to raise prices or reduce overheads at a similar rate to sustain a (as Charles would say) balanced cost-to-profit ratio.

The reason for ELC whacking their prices up so often and so much are just because: they can; they think people will pay them; and because they want to.

All the other so called reasons are absolute bullshit.
 

Ken at Aero Leather

Well-Known Member
I've found this whole ELC "yet another price hike" thing rather amusing and was just as amused to see that Charles has responded to a post by a chap called Big J over at the Salon du Chapeau who had suggested that there might be a bit of "price-gouging" going on (that obviously raised a few hackles).

I actually wonder whether Charles has an account here and has been reading what's been going on over here as he has now in his new justification spiel completely left out any references to businesses in the UK and Japan having to charge so much (funny that) and moved onto trying to make out that ELC's profit margins are nothing compared to others.

Now he seems to be going on about Avirex, Alpha, Sears, Ralph Lauren, etc, etc and how their profit margins are greater than ELC. Well of course they're bigger than ELC, they deal with much higher volume and are less niche so their production costs are lower, Economics 101 FFS! This sort of argument has nothing to do with ELC bumping their prices up 3 times over the last year or so.

Monsoon, you've actually hit the nail on the head. The ELMC thing was the move that showed that they wanted to reposition the brand to a different and higher paying market, buoyed by the recent increase in interest in vintage workwear, arguably growing from the global hipster scene's interest in old things.

What pisses me off is how people will buy these sorts of bullshit excuses from Charles for what simply translates as pure, hyper aggressive pricing increases over short time frames because they think they can do it and because they think they can tap into a higher paying market and position their products as such.

It's actually very simple. If the price rises were purely due to as Charles says "imbalanced cost-to-profit ratio(s)" which would obviously grow out of regional and industry specific factors then a similar company such as Aero operating in the same national (and correspondingly commercially legislated, governed and subject to largely the same industry affects) environment should be having to raise prices or reduce overheads at a similar rate to sustain a (as Charles would say) balanced cost-to-profit ratio.

The reason for ELC whacking their prices up so often and so much are just because: they can; they think people will pay them; and because they want to.

All the other so called reasons are absolute bullshit.
As you know I'm not a fan of the use of the term "The Hat Place", I don't think it does either the Fedora Lounge or Vintage Leather Jackets any favours
That said I love Smithy's Salon du Chapeau
I honestly can't recall the last time I laughed out loud online......................I think that was reading another of Nicola Sturgeon's policies
 

Ken at Aero Leather

Well-Known Member
Smithy said:
All that drivel Charles wrote about artisans and all that nonsense meant to make you think of some kinds of honest salts of the earth toiling away in a fading, noble pursuit of oldie-worldie, workmanship is quite frankly, a complete bunch of arse.


This is actually a true statement. The people that are interested in making items like leather flight jackets and the like are pursuing an old world style of art that not many want to do.
Much as I hate to take Charlie's side, after spending this week in the factory watching the enthusiam with which eleven young kids were going about their work making leather , sheepskin and/or cloth jackets, all were under 30, most but not all were graduates from Heriot Watt Textile University, but what they all had in common was a thirst to know more and to improve with each day.

Got to agree with Smithy though, most of Charlie's shpiel was "a complete bunch of arse"
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
I've just had a deja vu moment

Smithy? Did you not once take Aero to task on VLJ for raising our A-2 price three time in 17 years? :eek: :)
Ken, I'll admit I gave you chaps some stick for the rate of bumping the prices up from 2007ish to 2017ish. But compared to what ELC have done it's not even in the same general hemisphere.

Joking aside (and with my old business development manager hat on) you lot want to capitalise on this by positioning yourselves as a better, cost-effective alternative to ELC for A-2s, etc.I know you guys concentrate on civvy jackets but this is an opportunity too good to refuse, a small amount of targeted marketing online and some promo/PR stuff and you could really tap an emerging hole in the market, and it really wouldn't take much marketing investment. Perfect opportunity to grow the military clothing side of your business and exploit what ELC are doing.
 
Last edited:

Ken at Aero Leather

Well-Known Member
You are right Smithy but we are really stuggling keeping up with the military production demands already. We do have a new shearling machinist in training and making a really good job of C-3 vests, they'll be going on sale cheap very soon.
Also, some of the younger kids at the factory are reviving an old 70's label of mine "Ruskin" from the days I dressed the Rock'n'Roll Hoi Poloi....................nothing like Aero but the demand has been quite amazing, I'd no idea how much £££s my vintage 60's/70s pieces were making
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
:)
The same applies for all other makers...except BK..unless he sniped in after being banned several ( ID’s) times.
As far as all posts here and on the hat lounge goes..,
Both Greek makers... BK and Platon have been kicked out via several forged ID‘s.
To me a pity...let them speak out.. same as others here who have nothing to say or contribute..:)
 
Last edited:

Smithy

Well-Known Member
Has Gary Eastman, does anyone know, ever been on this forum or contributed?
Well if he does hang around here, it might be worth him having a quiet chat with Charles and suggest he stop talking a lot of rot and either tell it like it is or say nothing (which seems to be ELC's approach).

Also, some of the younger kids at the factory are reviving an old 70's label of mine "Ruskin" from the days I dressed the Rock'n'Roll Hoi Poloi....................nothing like Aero but the demand has been quite amazing, I'd no idea how much £££s my vintage 60's/70s pieces were making
That sounds like a bit of fun. Didn't you do the Suzy Quatro leather catsuit thingy?

Seriously though you want to do at least a little push with your military things to take advantage of your better positioning regarding pricing. Perfect timing as there's tangible momentum from all the people talking about prices having gone too far for them with these multiple and large price hikes, and subsequently a lot of scope to promote yourselves as a more cost effective alternative.
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
Prime makers dont care about those sissy pussy price increase or whatever discussions here and in other forums...
Why should they? if they have 2 years or at worst 1-2 years order books full? from other payers..not ( only , but still a hand full) Loungers.. Why we alway measure it to Loungers standards and world..?
And here we all pussy sissy around about a bit of money here and there... What a joke for them..Apologies, and sorry for the crude words but this is business reality in our real actual bad or not economies
 
Last edited:

Thomas Koehle

Well-Known Member
Prime makers dont care about those sissy pussy price increase or whatever discussions here and in other forums...
Why should they? if they have 2 years or at worst 1-2 years order books full? from other payers..not ( only , but still a hand full) Loungers.. Why we alway measure it to Loungers standards and world..?
And here we all pussy sissy around about a bit of money here and there... What a joke for them..Apologies, and sorry for the crude words but this is business reality in our real actual bad or not economies
Gentlemen,

I’m with Pilot.

honestly if ELC wants to raise prices they will do.

I’m pretty sure something that also Ken experiences is people placing statements about price-policies are not the people you make money with. Thus i’m pretty certain ELC will not even scratch his head for a second about such price discussions.

The only statement you can give is either being consequent and no longer buying from such a shop or leave it alone.

And honestly to name it straight: if I would be on such a position I would give a sh... about such discussions as long as the money constantly comes in
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
Gentlemen,

I’m with Pilot.

honestly if ELC wants to raise prices they will do.

I’m pretty sure something that also Ken experiences is people placing statements about price-policies are not the people you make money with. Thus i’m pretty certain ELC will not even scratch his head for a second about such price discussions.

The only statement you can give is either being consequent and no longer buying from such a shop or leave it alone.

And honestly to name it straight: if I would be on such a position I would give a sh... about such discussions as long as the money constantly comes in
Agree 1000%, besides we had this same discussions almost every year plus a few months back...we even predicted ELC and other high priced makers “dead” and running out of buyers...and what happen?...the contrary!
Must be because there are (other) buyers and customers ...not only forums(s) members.
 
Last edited:

Ken at Aero Leather

Well-Known Member
That sounds like a bit of fun. Didn't you do the Suzy Quatro leather catsuit thingy?
Ah Yes, and she didn't fancy the idea at first either, Mickey Most (her manager) had Fringed Suede (Doris Dayish look) in mind, before I met Suzi.................who was very shy, believe it or not...........I heard her demo and it screamed Girl on a Motorcycle , Marianne Faithful to me (another of my clients)
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
honestly if ELC wants to raise prices they will do.
Nobody has said they can't or shouldn't, least of all me. Go back a page, I said they are doing it because they CAN.

What I took umbrage with was Charles' complete bullshit reasoning for their prices going up and at such a frequency. Either tell it like it is or don't say anything. Even someone doing 4th form economics at school can see his explanation is just spin.

Will ELC putting their prices up the way they have lose them business? Well obviously it has as some blokes on here have said as much. Does that worry them? Probably not because they obviously think they can pick up business in newer markets.

But don't bullshit your customers for the reasons you're doing it.

Ah Yes, and she didn't fancy the idea at first either, Mickey Most (her manager) had Fringed Suede (Doris Dayish look) in mind, before I met Suzi.................who was very shy, believe it or not...........I heard her demo and it screamed Girl on a Motorcycle , Marianne Faithful to me (another of my clients)
That's funny, from her public persona I would've thought she was an absolute man-eater.
 

Ken at Aero Leather

Well-Known Member
It's an odd thing but many of the celebrities I've dealt are nothing like one would have expected, but sadly there are also far too many who, once famous, turn out to fit the term "Don't you know who I think I am?"
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
GBP... Good Business Practice...
Market pricing...target your market with your sustainability and productivity...Make money...target deticated buyers/markets...
Apparently , there is a demand for ( high end quality...top notch); +++ 1.5 K $¥£€...jackets, some demand even from forum(s) member(s) ...( less and less..forums members from here... apparently....the makers don’ t care and laugh about it..thus no more postings from them......)Hence why not satisfying it...the payers markets....plus making big $$£££¥¥¥)
 
Last edited:
Top