• Hey guys, I had to upgrade the VLJ software because the old one is being phased out. Please let me know of any issues in the SITE UPDATE THREAD. Thanks!

AVI LTHR Bronco updated 2019 version

Brettafett

Well-Known Member
no no its ok, its all part of the discussion... Charles makes some interesting observations... Its sad though, what future for these companies....?
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
its called offer and demand $$$$ ... first semester in any so so called reputable business school...
All comments on this subject...if looking from outside of the “shoebox” ( maybe also VLJ..sure....now I will get shot...) is just a big laughter for the seller and POTENTIAL... VERY POTENTIAL BUYERS....
Sorry for my crude words...but believe it or not its the ( my actual ) REAL REAL REAL WORLD ...not in Europe and US...( anymore)...but for other business...LOBBYING, HIGH CLASS , GLAMOUR,PRESTIGE...is gold weighted...and so paid for...without discussion...
 
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B-Man2

Well-Known Member
no no its ok, its all part of the discussion... Charles makes some interesting observations... Its sad though, what future for these companies....?
Not that ELC gives a damn about what any of us think, but this is just price gouging in my opinion. 3 increases in what? 1 1/ 2 years C’mon!! Enough !!
I’m done ... I would rather support Jay at Headwind or Ken at Aero, than pour money into a company that doesn’t appreciate my support and keeps sticking it to me. Just my opinion!
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
Not that ELC gives a damn about what any of us think, but this is just price gouging in my opinion. 3 increases in what? 1 1/ 2 years C’mon!! Enough !!
I’m done ... I would rather support Jay at Headwind than pour money into a company that doesn’t appreciate my support and keeps sticking it to me. Just my opinion!
Valued a lot...but believe it or not...they dont care...
China/Japan/Golf region/Russia.. approx... 1/4 Billion potential payers...( out of approx. 1 B People ...all extreemly interested and wealthy buyers for this kind of stuff) ...and here is a price increase discussion...sorry but hahahaha...
( just seeing from outside of the box)....
hahahaha...
My little internship in a Business school....
 
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Brettafett

Well-Known Member
The dream: Someone like AVI or Shawn make an original maker horsehide A-2 repro, very close to the standards of GW or ELC, for under 400 Euros.
There will always be grading/ sizing issues (grade from one original...), and lack of availability of super authentic components (Conmar zippers)... Otherwise, to me at least, this seems possible.
 

Pilot

Well-Known Member
The dream: Someone like AVI or Shawn make an original maker horsehide A-2 repro, very close to the standards of GW or ELC, for under 400 Euros.
There will always be grading/ sizing issues (grade from one original...), and lack of availability of super authentic components (Conmar zippers)... Otherwise, to me at least, this seems possible.
and JC from GW...who can provide...lives happily with a comfortable lead time....of ???
Would be great for all ( mostly low budgets) investors/ buyers, if your dream comes through...
Furthermore, the little French artisan manufacturing Hartmann Jackets ( posts here already) does not even take orders anymore until 2022 since outbooked with all am markets/buyers...Ask them about conditions and prices....
Quality/Prestige/Glamour/Fame...etc,... ( A Jag,RR, Rolex, BMW, Maybach, Bugatti, Porsche, Merc...always sells.. a.. P, F, R, M. H, K... etc....hmmm... but cheap...)...
A few here even argue about shipping costs ( hahaha), at risk..even if shipping a “budget disguisement coat”...The real paying/buying world is a bit different....Sorry....
BTW, why almost no more high end items listed here?...just asking... ( also asking yourself)
Sorry and...again, I will be shot......
 
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Pilot

Well-Known Member
Sorry no politics.....and just saw my ( wife’s) Cat kittens nesting on an ELC RW 27752...from the early 2010...since extremly time worn/ grainy...
Will go ( The ELC in46 RW 27752 of course) under the hammer as soon as MINI TOM&JERRY ( s.s) are off..
Nice for patina..for a first class repro...in two weeks I believe...

BTW a few AVI A-2 and others on Crapbay ...take and enjoy the bargain...sure a steal for all the budget fans...Please support AVI...
 
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Ken at Aero Leather

Well-Known Member
Wow................this is getting really hard to follow

Bottom Line as I see it and as I said from the moment I first rcommended Shawn for budget A-2s and got slagged off by one and all on VLJ for my trouble is this.................
He's at least Shawn is making his own jackets, not "buying in" Philip Green style from The Sub Continent and passing them off as his own at treble the price

Despite all the ridiculous price increases and Charlie's War & Peace shpiel, one has to have more respect for ELC than for AVI, as for Aero? I wish we had more A-2 production but not enough to go down the "Third World" route
 

B-Man2

Well-Known Member
Wow................this is getting really hard to follow

Bottom Line as I see it and as I said from the moment I first rcommended Shawn for budget A-2s and got slagged off by one and all on VLJ for my trouble is this.................
He's at least Shawn is making his own jackets, not "buying in" Philip Green style from The Sub Continent and passing them off as his own at treble the price

Despite all the ridiculous price increases and Charlie's War & Peace shpiel, one has to have more respect for ELC than for AVI, as for Aero? I wish we had more A-2 production but not enough to go down the "Third World" route
Ken
I agree with you on all of your statement. Here’s my thoughts.
Why would I continue to purchase goods and support a maker who is now “habitually” ( 3 times in 1 1/2 years I consider a habit) raising their prices and sticking it to me. Now before we go down the philosophical path of the maker has increasing costs , labor cost increases,
and has the right to a profit margin etc, etc,etc , I agree on all of those points. No problem they absolutely have those rights... But as a consumer I absolutely have a right to “change buses” as I see fit, and this increase is where this consumer is getting off the ELC bus. I would rather patronize your company or Headwind or another company who isn’t trying to wring my wallet dry. That’s not to say I won’t ever purchase another ELC jacket, but it will be off the resale market and not at full price from ELC. Once again just my opinion
 
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Smithy

Well-Known Member
I thought I'd toddle by and see what was happening around here and low and behold I hear whisperings of yet another ELC price hike. I went over to Chez Hat and read the "explanation" from Charles.

What a load of complete and utter bullshit.

That bloke should have been a politician for all the obfuscation and spin that he laid on there. ELC put their prices up 3 times last year and they're putting them up again because they CAN - or at least they think they can. All that drivel Charles wrote about artisans and all that nonsense meant to make you think of some kinds of honest salts of the earth toiling away in a fading, noble pursuit of oldie-worldie, workmanship is quite frankly, a complete bunch of arse. ELC are whacking their prices up because they think that they can because they think that people will pay it. Charles making up a lot of horseshit about people in the UK and Japan having to charge so much is just that, utter crap. Case in point, Aero. Aero are in the UK and aren't charging that much to make vintage leather jackets.

ELC are losing some of their traditional customers because of these incredibly frequent and overall, ridiculous price hikes but they obviously think they can gain business from other markets. Charles' attempt at damage control actually makes it look like underneath it all he might be a tad worried, that's the only reason I can think why he'd write such a rambling piece of complete nonsense about artisans, and the UK and Japan, and all the rest of it. If I was him, I would be worried. His main supplier is bumping prices up right, left and centre, and he's got people on fora such at the Hat Place (and here for that matter) coming out and starting to say, "too rich for me". For every one person saying it on a forum, there's probably dozens thinking the same thing out in the real world.

As I mentioned a few weeks back, I'm not in the running for anymore leather jackets now but I do have an AVI Bronco and I have to say I like it. Ken got his knickers in a knot about them, thinking they were trying to pass their jackets off as Danish made when I suspect it was probably more a language, oversight kind of cockup. Then again maybe Morten was trying to pull a fastie and let everybody think their jackets were Scandinavian made. At the end of the day, I really couldn't give a shit either way. I'm quite happy with my one, and it was (to my mind) worth the money I spent on it and it's very good quality and that's enough for me.

If I was in the running for another A-2 I'd go for one of those Platon jobs, they really look the goods for the money you have to fork out. I love my ELC Irvin but I don't think I'd entertain spending what they're asking now. It just comes across as a rip-off now and that colours what I think of the product now, no matter how bloody good it is.
 
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B-Man2

Well-Known Member
I thought I'd toddle by and see what was happening around here and low and behold I hear whisperings of yet another ELC price hike. I went over to Chez Hat and read the "explanation" from Charles.

What a load of complete and utter bullshit.

That bloke should have been a politician for all the obfuscation and spin that he laid on there. ELC put their prices up 3 times last year and they're putting them up again because they CAN - or at least they think they can. All that drivel Charles wrote about artisans and all that nonsense meant to make you think of some kinds of honest salts of the earth toiling away in a fading, noble pursuit of oldie-worldie, workmanship is quite frankly, a complete bunch of arse. ELC are whacking their prices up because they think that they can because they think that people will pay it. Charles making up a lot of horseshit about people in the UK and Japan having to charge so much is just that, utter crap. Case in point, Aero. Aero are in the UK and aren't charging that much to make vintage leather jackets.

ELC are losing some of their traditional customers because of these incredibly frequent and overall, ridiculous price hikes but they obviously think they can gain business from other markets. Charles' attempt at damage control actually makes it look like underneath it all he might be a tad worried, that's the only reason I can think why he'd write such a rambling piece of complete nonsense about artisans, and the UK and Japan, and all the rest of it. If I was him, I would be worried. His main supplier is bumping prices up right, left and centre, and he's got people on fora such at the Hat Place (and here for that matter) coming out and starting to say, "too rich for me". For every one person saying it on a forum, there's probably dozens thinking the same thing out in the real world.

As I mentioned a few weeks back, I'm not in the running for anymore leather jackets now but I do have an AVI Bronco and I have to say I like it. Ken got his knickers in a knot about them, thinking they were trying to pass their jackets off as Danish made when I suspect it was probably more a language, oversight kind of cockup. Then again maybe Morten was trying to pull a fastie and let everybody think their jackets were Scandinavian made. At the end of the day, I really couldn't give a shit either way. I'm quite happy with my one, and it was (to my mind) worth the money I spent on it and it's very good quality and that's enough for me.

If I was in the running for another A-2 I'd go for one of those Platon jobs, they really look the goods for the money you have to fork out. I love my ELC Irvin but I don't think I'd entertain spending what they're asking now. It just comes across as a rip-off now and that colours what I think of the product now, no matter how bloody good it is.
Hah!!.... The man rides in like a “Guardian of the Galaxy” just at the right time and says exactly what most of us have been thinking.
GOOD TO HEAR FROM YOU TIM!;)
 

Micawber

Well-Known Member
Well said Tim.

Besides, any retailer is free to put their prices up to cater for those umpteen billion trillionaires in new and untapped markets who do not baulk at paying any amount for material trinkets which less moneyed mortals cannot aspire. If paying over the odds for goods satisfies some people good for them, I care not a jot, it won't make one iota of difference when they have gasped their last and shuffled off this mortal coil.

All this BS about simple items of flight clothing, original or reproduction, is not worth a jot compared to having swapped yarns, broken bread and made meaningful friendships with the people who wore the stuff the first time round '39-45. Money can't buy that, it's virtually too late for that now anyway.
 
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MeachamLake

Well-Known Member
I still maintain that, for the quality, Aero's jackets are absolute bargains. Eastman's, whilst getting pricier, still represent very good value when compared to similarly priced 'designer' stuff which is nowhere close in terms of authenticity and quality. Remember that Ralph Lauren is currently selling a cowhide, foreign made A-2 for more than an Eastman A-2.

But don't even get me started on the Real McCoy's. £3500 for a B-3? I'd rather have a Savile Row suit for that kind of cash!
 

Micawber

Well-Known Member
I still maintain that, for the quality, Aero's jackets are absolute bargains. Eastman's, whilst getting pricier, still represent very good value when compared to similarly priced 'designer' stuff which is nowhere close in terms of authenticity and quality. Remember that Ralph Lauren is currently selling a cowhide, foreign made A-2 for more than an Eastman A-2.

But don't even get me started on the Real McCoy's. £3500 for a B-3? I'd rather have a Savile Row suit for that kind of cash!
Can't beat bespoke where every quirk and characteristic of your own physique has been taken into account during measure up and subsequent fittings by experienced and dedicated cutters and tailors. There is just no comparison when considering off the peg reproduction flight jackets, let alone mass produced originals. Specifying longer or shorter sleeves or torso adjustments to a standard size pattern ain't bespoke
 

MeachamLake

Well-Known Member
Can't beat bespoke where every quirk and characteristic of your own physique has been taken into account during measure up and subsequent fittings by experienced and dedicated cutters and tailors. There is just no comparison when considering off the peg reproduction flight jackets, let alone mass produced originals. Specifying longer or shorter sleeves or torso adjustments to a standard size pattern ain't bespoke
Definitely - I'm very lucky to have had the chance to have a bespoke suit made by a Savile Row tailor and the whole process and experience was fascinating. A very comfortable garment with every possible tiny detail to my liking was the end result.

Simon Crompton over at Permanent Style had a bespoke leather jacket made by Gieves & Hawkes a few years back. The results were very good, but, considering the astronomical price involved (£4200), somewhat underwhelming.

https://www.permanentstyle.com/2013/08/the-bespoke-leather-jacket-part-5.html
 

Ken at Aero Leather

Well-Known Member
Definitely - I'm very lucky to have had the chance to have a bespoke suit made by a Savile Row tailor and the whole process and experience was fascinating. A very comfortable garment with every possible tiny detail to my liking was the end result.

Simon Crompton over at Permanent Style had a bespoke leather jacket made by Gieves & Hawkes a few years back. The results were very good, but, considering the astronomical price involved (£4200), somewhat underwhelming.

https://www.permanentstyle.com/2013/08/the-bespoke-leather-jacket-part-5.html
Leather work requires totally different techniques, what works in cloth doesn't always translate to leather and vica versa, each has it's own methods, not to mention the need for special machines, sad to say it looks like a decent Mall jacket, worth £300 or £400 of anyone's money I suppose. They've made a mess of the sleeve head roll The collar isn't sitting right........................
That said, it's a good as job as I'd make of a tailored suit jacket :oops:
 

Ken at Aero Leather

Well-Known Member
As a PS
I have an original vintage Bespoke 3 Piece Tweed suit made in 1946 by Bernard Weatherill of Saville Row Tweed suit,..................no NOT for me, I'm not THAT old!!!!
I haven't worn it for years as the jacket needs re-lining.
If it was a leather jacket I could do a reline in a hour or so to 100% perfection but I've not attempted the reline the Suit jacket myself as I'm not confident enough in my cloth sewing ability to feel I would do the jacket justice
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
Well said Tim.

Besides, any retailer is free to put their prices up to cater for those umpteen billion trillionaires in new and untapped markets who do not baulk at paying any amount for material trinkets which less moneyed mortals cannot aspire. If paying over the odds for goods satisfies some people good for them, I care not a jot, it won't make one iota of difference when they have gasped their last and shuffled off this mortal coil.

All this BS about simple items of flight clothing, original or reproduction, is not worth a jot compared to having swapped yarns, broken bread and made meaningful friendships with the people who wore the stuff the first time round '39-45. Money can't buy that, it's virtually too late for that now anyway.
Bloody well said Steve.

I'd give all my flying jackets away in a heartbeat if it would bring back the WWII chaps I was very lucky to have known, even for just another hour. In fact any of the correspondence, signed books, photos from those chaps that I have no matter how small will always be infinitely more valuable to me than a piece of clothing.

As a PS
I have an original vintage Bespoke 3 Piece Tweed suit made in 1946 by Bernard Weatherill of Saville Row Tweed suit,..................no NOT for me, I'm not THAT old!!!!
I haven't worn it for years as the jacket needs re-lining.
If it was a leather jacket I could do a reline in a hour or so to 100% perfection but I've not attempted the reline the Suit jacket myself as I'm not confident enough in my cloth sewing ability to feel I would do the jacket justice
Can't go wrong with proper, decently tailored tweed. My hacking jacket is one of the best bits of clothing I ever bought. It wasn't cheap but it was jolly well worth every penny. I haven't gone the whole tweed suit yet but I think I'm at the age now where I could pull it off and the climate here is perfect for a good weight tweed, and when I need a new suit that's what I'll be after.
 

Micawber

Well-Known Member
I have two shop racks of tweed suits, jackets, shooting outfits, you name it, including a deal of vintage some of of which I can no longer squeeze into ...or can be let out any more <sigh>
 
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