Anyone interested in Fivestar horsehide? 3 shades in progress..

ties70

Well-Known Member
Hard to say .... I am just worring about the leather thickness not the stiffness, does not want affording a jacket with such a thin leather to my opinion it will be to fragile to wear! Been told that Horsehide as a reputation to be tough.
Cowboy,

I have been making patches for years....I can assure you that even the flimsiest leather is not easy to tear ;-).
Every patch, made from horse, pig or goat, fat or thin, had to be cut with a scalpel or a special circular cutter.

The WWII photos that Jan had posted show some really thin and drape-y jackets.
I would assume that they were perfectly fine for the intended purpose: Sitting in a seat for hours or moving within confined spaces.

So, walking around or driving your car...the thinner hides of Shawn's jackest should work just fine.

Would I have him make me a motorcycle jacket out of it? Unlikely...

But a Poughkeepsie repro? Sure...

Ties
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
Chrome tanned leather had been the standard for flying kit since it had first been stipulated its use on the first issued flying coats in the RFC and RNAS. Its water-proofing qualities are better than veg tanned so that's almost certainly the reason.

In terms of what Gary says in a piece of marketing blurb, I'd take that with a grain of salt. His job is to get people to buy his jackets.
 

mulceber

Well-Known Member
Chrome tanned leather had been the standard for flying kit since it had first been stipulated its use on the first issued flying coats in the RFC and RNAS. Its water-proofing qualities are better than veg tanned so that's almost certainly the reason.
Exactly, and I think that's why information on it is scarce - nobody felt the need to stipulate "chrome tanned" because of course you'd pick chrome. It's the leather used for garments. The idea of taking veg-tanned leather, the stuff they used for bridle harnesses and saddles, and splitting it thin so you could make jackets out of it wasn't something people seriously thought about doing. Maybe that's pushing things a bit far. I suppose it's possible there were some veg-tanned jackets already, but I still think the tanning process wasn't specified in these documents because chrome was so standard for garments.
 
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flyincowboy

Well-Known Member
Has some one ever visiting a tannery? Its such an interressing place ; full of different smell and odors! Had a chance years ago ... The owner was very kind of hows' to's and explanation of the different process to make leather. great souvenirs.
 

flyincowboy

Well-Known Member
Cowboy,

I have been making patches for years....I can assure you that even the flimsiest leather is not easy to tear ;-).
Every patch, made from horse, pig or goat, fat or thin, had to be cut with a scalpel or a special circular cutter.

The WWII photos that Jan had posted show some really thin and drape-y jackets.
I would assume that they were perfectly fine for the intended purpose: Sitting in a seat for hours or moving within confined spaces.

So, walking around or driving your car...the thinner hides of Shawn's jackest should work just fine.

Would I have him make me a motorcycle jacket out of it? Unlikely...

But a Poughkeepsie repro? Sure...

Ties
Ties You are right maybe it is just because we get the habits to wear thick mall leather jackets.... Sure they look bullet proof tough as nails... That's the way they've been soldt I bought my first civilian A2 with warmer handpockets that way years ago. To me a military repro flight jacket must be a second skin an armor. I was miles away from thinking that it is just a summer flight jacket .
 
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B-Man2

Well-Known Member
I’ve been reading this thread with a great deal of interest . You guys are impressive with the amount of insight and knowledge you have on this topic . After reading this thread I just have one thing to request :
If anyone has this Chromed Tanned GW that JC made and is interested in selling it , please PM me. I would love to own this one .

 

ties70

Well-Known Member
Ties You are right maybe it is just because we get the habits to wear thick mall leather jackets.... Sure they look bullet proof tough as nails... That's the way they've been sold I bought my first civilian A2 with warmer handpockets that way years ago. To me a military repro flight jacket must be a second skin an armor. I was miles away from thinking that it is just a summer flight jacket .
It was here at VLJ where someone (I can't remember who it was, though) compared the A-2 in style and appearance to a (glorified) shirt made from leather...
 

Kermit3D

Well-Known Member
I’ve been reading this thread with a great deal of interest . You guys are impressive with the amount of insight and knowledge you have on this topic . After reading this thread I just have one thing to request :
If anyone has this Chromed Tanned GW that JC made and is interested in selling it , please PM me. I would love to own this one .

Indeed it is very interesting to follow this discussion. I learned a lot of things.

The GW chrome tanned jacket is superb !
Since it is a very rare high precision chrome tanned reproduction, it may be the most authentic A-2 replica ever produced. :)
 

blackrat2

Well-Known Member
Southoftheboarder...I have now got the preference for the slightly more pigment finished leather, I think a lot of the current batches being made by the likes of GW, BK etc do have this option, and Shauns look similar in finish also
 

P-47 thunderbolt

Well-Known Member
This is my DD ACME, chrome tan semi aniline finish, I think a particular point that I've noticed is the creasing on the arms which does not tunnel like my veg tanned eastman and many other repros. I think this particular aspect is more ww2 accurate and similar even to the 75 year + old originals. It has very pliable leather with a softer drape
IMG_20200503_133230.jpg
 

Nickb123

Well-Known Member
As for color variations, the chrome tanning of the past was not as bullet proof as today's methods. Also, you get different results if you drum dye and then chrome tan, then if you chrome tan and spray pigment. Even more colorfast results if you drum dye, chrome tan and then spray dye and lacquer the jacket.
This answered a question I too long had.

And I know this has been answered on here before, but I’m forgetting...weren’t some USN veg tanned? I see a lot of them with those reddish hues on them. Were they too all chrome tanned as well?
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
This is my DD ACME, chrome tan semi aniline finish, I think a particular point that I've noticed is the creasing on the arms which does not tunnel like my veg tanned eastman and many other repros. I think this particular aspect is more ww2 accurate and similar even to the 75 year + old originals. It has very pliable leather with a softer drape
View attachment 57095
Superb point and a super important observation P-47.

Even well broken in veg tanned stuff seems to keep the sleeve crease tunnels when the jacket isn't worn. Chrome tanned stuff you can see the creasing where it will crease when worn but it lies straight when not worn. My cheapo pre-production WPG does this too and when worn has the soft drape that you see with originals in period photos. You can see how soft and pliant the leather is even lying flat here...



I've mentioned this here on VLJ before but I really think that this is something that the high end veg tanned repros really fall flat on, the leather looks great but doesn't behave the same way as the originals they seek to emulate because the tanning method is different and ultimately they don't drape the same and therefore don't have that je ne sais quoi that a period worn original has.

Your DD one P-47 not just looks great but you can even tell from the photo just how pliant the leather is which will give the right drape when worn.
 

Micawber

Well-Known Member
Ah, the old leather tanning and finishing subject comes around on the revolving stage again. Here's one of the previous threads...

 

Chandler

Well-Known Member
Ah, the old leather tanning and finishing subject comes around on the revolving stage again. Here's one of the previous threads...

I found a few too. Seems like it comes up once every 10 years or so -- and still no solid conclusions.

I guess it all boils down to what makes you happy. I have 3 veg-tanned A-2s in 3 different hides, they all drape differently. I wear them in rotation and enjoy them all. Bottom line?
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
I found a few too. Seems like it comes up once every 10 years or so -- and still no solid conclusions.
Except there are. Originals were chrome tanned. Chrome tanning and veg tanning give differing characteristics to the leather.

There's nothing wrong with a nice veg tanned repro but it won't behave exactly like an original would have when it was relatively new.
 

Chandler

Well-Known Member
Except there are. Originals were chrome tanned. Chrome tanning and veg tanning give differing characteristics to the leather.
Was going to revert to a typical Chandler smart-alleck response, but I'm done with this discussion after seeing that it's been a debate for 20+ years.

As said, my jackets all drape differently, look the part, and make me happy. Full stop.
 
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