Any New Five Star A-2’s to Report?

Bombing IP

Well-Known Member
I personally think the Horse hide is on par with a Gibson & Barnes spongy and with out character and to thick ( I do not like G&B ,also the arms appear to big for the arm holes causing a presentation problem when worn . The leather was probably chosen to keep the jacket within a price range ,but a better choice would of been a cowhide or steer hide . The leather should be mismatched with scars and grain . The goat skin jacket have it all going on but lack character ,its almost like they need to be washed dried to give them a 3D effect as they look now like 3rd angle drawings or single layer of leather no life in them ,flat as a pancake . Then photograph them and offer them to the public they would look so much better What about investing in some themed background WWII style this plain white background is to sterile it does not show the public the company has a pulse , show some the people out there you love the A-2 type and take it serious . When you make a jacket have someone put it on and check the cut a drape ,some are OK some are bad !

Jeff
 

ties70

Well-Known Member
I personally think the Horse hide is on par with a Gibson & Barnes spongy and with out character and to thick ( I do not like G&B ,also the arms appear to big for the arm holes causing a presentation problem when worn . The leather was probably chosen to keep the jacket within a price range ,but a better choice would of been a cowhide or steer hide . The leather should be mismatched with scars and grain . The goat skin jacket have it all going on but lack character ,its almost like they need to be washed dried to give them a 3D effect as they look now like 3rd angle drawings or single layer of leather no life in them ,flat as a pancake . Then photograph them and offer them to the public they would look so much better What about investing in some themed background WWII style this plain white background is to sterile it does not show the public the company has a pulse , show some the people out there you love the A-2 type and take it serious . When you make a jacket have someone put it on and check the cut a drape ,some are OK some are bad !

Jeff
Jeff,

I have seen the horsehide in person when I stopped by at @Thomas Koehle some weeks ago...It is much nicer than you would expect from the pictures. It's not very thick, maybe even on the thin side....the feel has its appeal, but it is definitely different from the more hefty and stiffer hides the other (higher class) makers offer.

I am absolutely with you that it lacks character, at least straight out of the box.
The surface was very smooth, the overall appearance very even throughout the complete jacket...Thomas might have done something to change that but - having seen his closet and man cave - I doubt that: Too many jackets, too little time to treat each and every one of them "ruff 'n tuff".

Maybe they could get a head start character-wise with a more jerky, grainy and mismatched horsehide selection, but my personal guess would be that FiveStar is currently still stuck in "fashion mode", and what we consider "character" they might see as "faulty".

So at the moment, I see no personal "higher value" in getting the horsehide instead of the goatskin.

Sounding like an old record on infinite loop here, but the goatskin would still be my approach to get an original contract to perfection. You see a lack of character in their goats as well, but I would not second that. The hide that was used for my Doniger is far superior to their early qualities and not below that of, for example ELC (I had their G-1 and M-422a jackets and found their leather stiff and embossed-looking....to be fair: that was 15 years ago....maybe they have significantly improved.).

27831


I handled original G-1s that had less grain than my Doniger...

To get to next level, it is abolutely necessary to achieve an original and get a set of starter patterns from that. You can only get so far from looking at jackets and try to figure out their construction....

FiveStar needs to train people especially for the A-2s, and make sure they can perfect their skills. At the moment it seems as if they take small "liberties", like adding that inside pocket, you specifically asked them to leave out....another thing would be the loose waistbands...

Good comment on the marketing angle, Jeff!
Take the photos of the jacket on top of a khaki or camouflaged blanket, and voilà, totally different first impression. If you do not have the time or personnel to take model photos, just get a tailor bust and put the jacket on it...

@Shawn Ali : As you can see, we are still trying to make you better...in the end it's all up to you to go there...

Best regards,

Ties
 

Attachments

ausreenactor

Well-Known Member
Jeff,

I have seen the horsehide in person when I stopped by at @Thomas Koehle some weeks ago...It is much nicer than you would expect from the pictures. It's not very thick, maybe even on the thin side....the feel has its appeal, but it is definitely different from the more hefty and stiffer hides the other (higher class) makers offer.

I am absolutely with you that it lacks character, at least straight out of the box.
The surface was very smooth, the overall appearance very even throughout the complete jacket...Thomas might have done something to change that but - having seen his closet and man cave - I doubt that: Too many jackets, too little time to treat each and every one of them "ruff 'n tuff".

Maybe they could get a head start character-wise with a more jerky, grainy and mismatched horsehide selection, but my personal guess would be that FiveStar is currently still stuck in "fashion mode", and what we consider "character" they might see as "faulty".

So at the moment, I see no personal "higher value" in getting the horsehide instead of the goatskin.

Sounding like an old record on infinite loop here, but the goatskin would still be my approach to get an original contract to perfection. You see a lack of character in their goats as well, but I would not second that. The hide that was used for my Doniger is far superior to their early qualities and not below that of, for example ELC (I had their G-1 and M-422a jackets and found their leather stiff and embossed-looking....to be fair: that was 15 years ago....maybe they have significantly improved.).

View attachment 27831

I handled original G-1s that had less grain than my Doniger...

To get to next level, it is abolutely necessary to achieve an original and get a set of starter patterns from that. You can only get so far from looking at jackets and try to figure out their construction....

FiveStar needs to train people especially for the A-2s, and make sure they can perfect their skills. At the moment it seems as if they take small "liberties", like adding that inside pocket, you specifically asked them to leave out....another thing would be the loose waistbands...

Good comment on the marketing angle, Jeff!
Take the photos of the jacket on top of a khaki or camouflaged blanket, and voilà, totally different first impression. If you do not have the time or personnel to take model photos, just get a tailor bust and put the jacket on it...

@Shawn Ali : As you can see, we are still trying to make you better...in the end it's all up to you to go there...

Best regards,

Ties
Well written Ties..
 

Southoftheborder

Well-Known Member
I notice that on eBay they are selling the Doniger in horsehide which is a bit odd when originals were made of goat. I think all their jackets were made in goatskin at first and they only started to use HH after picking the brains of VLJ members. So if they are trying to be accurate why make this?
 

ties70

Well-Known Member
Sotb,

your observation really adds to my post:

I think that despite Shawn's honest intentions to turn his flight jacket segment into a credible player, FiveStar itself is a) still deeply rooted in the fashion market and b) driven by its own self-conception of offering maximum customization....You said it: We demanded HH, they started offering it...

They probably do not see the crossroads they are standing at: There are two signs. One says "Authenticity", one says "Customization"... You can offer a HH jacket, but then it's not a Doniger. Or you offer a Doniger, but then it can't be HH...

Ties
 

Bombing IP

Well-Known Member
Ties great points you have brought up ,and I 100% agree .He is an outsider that wants pointers and as you say the A-2 gets diluted with customization down the line .Why because the money is with the larger masses that do not care but need a place for their I phone etc etc. Mach buster who makes the patches creates a type of diorama to promote the theme and I think it helps with making a statement .

Ties have to say I love your artwork that been posted !.


Jeff
 

CoopDog

Active Member
Jeff,

I have seen the horsehide in person when I stopped by at @Thomas Koehle some weeks ago...It is much nicer than you would expect from the pictures. It's not very thick, maybe even on the thin side....the feel has its appeal, but it is definitely different from the more hefty and stiffer hides the other (higher class) makers offer.

I am absolutely with you that it lacks character, at least straight out of the box.
The surface was very smooth, the overall appearance very even throughout the complete jacket...Thomas might have done something to change that but - having seen his closet and man cave - I doubt that: Too many jackets, too little time to treat each and every one of them "ruff 'n tuff".

Maybe they could get a head start character-wise with a more jerky, grainy and mismatched horsehide selection, but my personal guess would be that FiveStar is currently still stuck in "fashion mode", and what we consider "character" they might see as "faulty".

So at the moment, I see no personal "higher value" in getting the horsehide instead of the goatskin.

Sounding like an old record on infinite loop here, but the goatskin would still be my approach to get an original contract to perfection. You see a lack of character in their goats as well, but I would not second that. The hide that was used for my Doniger is far superior to their early qualities and not below that of, for example ELC (I had their G-1 and M-422a jackets and found their leather stiff and embossed-looking....to be fair: that was 15 years ago....maybe they have significantly improved.).

View attachment 27831

I handled original G-1s that had less grain than my Doniger...

To get to next level, it is abolutely necessary to achieve an original and get a set of starter patterns from that. You can only get so far from looking at jackets and try to figure out their construction....

FiveStar needs to train people especially for the A-2s, and make sure they can perfect their skills. At the moment it seems as if they take small "liberties", like adding that inside pocket, you specifically asked them to leave out....another thing would be the loose waistbands...

Good comment on the marketing angle, Jeff!
Take the photos of the jacket on top of a khaki or camouflaged blanket, and voilà, totally different first impression. If you do not have the time or personnel to take model photos, just get a tailor bust and put the jacket on it...

@Shawn Ali : As you can see, we are still trying to make you better...in the end it's all up to you to go there...

Best regards,

Ties
Thank you for your input.
 

Skyhawk

Well-Known Member
I notice that on eBay they are selling the Doniger in horsehide which is a bit odd when originals were made of goat. I think all their jackets were made in goatskin at first and they only started to use HH after picking the brains of VLJ members. So if they are trying to be accurate why make this?
Because they don't know the in depth facts about the different contracts.

The reproduction market is a strange industry. It is a lot different than the fashion industry where you are only concerned with making items that are of good quality, have popular styles, and are reasonably durable using modern methods of textile production.

With reproductions, the materials are vital, the methods are outdated at times, and the little strange details can leave the most seasoned fashion leather maker scratching their heads.

You need to be passionate and invested in this industry to get things right. It takes a ton of research. I would say that 75% research and 25% jacket construction to get things right. If you don't do the research, you can only get so far in authenticity.

This type of research goes far beyond just browsing the forums and being hand fed some details. If you don't put in the time with your research, you get sub standard results. Like the wrong zippers for instance. You wind up using the chunky Talon zips on every model of A-2 you make, when you could do the research, and find that many 1940's A-2's had the Talon M-42 zipper. Even if the contract didn't use the M-42, you would be a lot closer than the originals if you used the M-42 in most cases.

Regards,
Jay
 

CoopDog

Active Member
I personally think the Horse hide is on par with a Gibson & Barnes spongy and with out character and to thick ( I do not like G&B ,also the arms appear to big for the arm holes causing a presentation problem when worn . The leather was probably chosen to keep the jacket within a price range ,but a better choice would of been a cowhide or steer hide . The leather should be mismatched with scars and grain . The goat skin jacket have it all going on but lack character ,its almost like they need to be washed dried to give them a 3D effect as they look now like 3rd angle drawings or single layer of leather no life in them ,flat as a pancake . Then photograph them and offer them to the public they would look so much better What about investing in some themed background WWII style this plain white background is to sterile it does not show the public the company has a pulse , show some the people out there you love the A-2 type and take it serious . When you make a jacket have someone put it on and check the cut a drape ,some are OK some are bad !

Jeff
I totally agree with you. The marketing/photography is plain horrible
 

ties70

Well-Known Member
@Bombing IP

Jeff, thanks for the compliments on my artwork.... I have added a cloud to give Tinker Belle some stability:

27840


That's exactly what these FS are for me: A "Don't regret and don't think twice" opportunity to try things out...

Ties
 
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