Discussion in 'Vintage' started by Roughwear, Oct 27, 2012.

  1. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    Full Gear contains the only published list of A2 contracts along with the guessed fiscal year dates. Some of the wartime contracts are wrongly dated. I have used documentary sources including newspapers to up-date the list. Contract numbers and order numbers run sequentially which makes dating contracts easier. More research is needed to pin-point the actual day a contract was awarded, although I have included this information where it is known.

    Pre-War Order numbers and the Fiscal Year
    32-485 Security (Aviation Togs) 1932
    33-1729 Werber 1933
    36-1112 P Werber 1936
    37-3061 P Aero 1937
    37-3891 P H.L.B. Corp. 1937
    38-205 Werber 1937
    38-1711-P Aero Nov 1937
    39-2951 P Werber 1939
    40-3785-P Aero 1940

    Contract Numbers
    W535ac16159 Rough Wear Oct 1940
    W535ac16160 Aero Oct 1940
    W535ac18091 Rough Wear Spring 1941
    W535ac20960 Dubow Sept.1941
    W535ac21996 Aero 27 October 1941
    W535ac23377 Perry late 1941
    W535ac23378 Monarch late 1941
    W535ac23379 Dubow late 1941
    W535ac23380 Rough Wear late 1941
    W535ac23381 Cooper late 1941
    W535ac23382 Cable late 1941
    W535ac23383 unknown (Fried Ostermann) late1941
    W535ac27752 Rough Wear Spring 1942
    W535ac27753 unknown (Cable) Spring 1942
    W535ac27798 Dubow Spring 1942
    W535ac28557 Star Summer 1942
    W535ac28560 Poughkeepsie summer1942
    W535ac29191 Bronco Summer 1942
    W535ac29971 unknown (David D Doniger) Summer 1942

    Order Numbers
    42-1401-P Rough Wear 17 Sept.1941
    42-1402-P Werber 17 Sept 1941
    42-10008-P Cable early 1942
    42-15142-P Aero Spring 1942
    42-16175-P Perry Spring 1942
    42-18245-P Star Spring 1942
    42-18246-P unknown (S.H. Knopf ) Spring 1942
    42-18775-P Aero May 1942
    42-18776-P Spiewak 25 May 1942
    42-18777-P United Sheeplined May 1942
    42-21539-P David D. Doniger & Co. summer 1942
    V505 Made in Australia 1943
    W33-038ac1755(11631) Dubow 13 June 1944
    1756 unknown (Perry) 13 June 1944
    W33-038ac1761 Bronco June 1944
    Geeboo and Steve27752 like this.
  2. greyhound52

    greyhound52 New Member

    Thanks so much for posting this. Could we make this a sticky so that it always available to us? I have read several posts recently asking about contract dates and this would be very useful.
  3. CBI

    CBI Well-Known Member

    superb info - thanks so much!!!!

    any idea when Cooper made theirs?
  4. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    I agree. It should be made a Sticky. It took me ages to search for an earlier version on the forum.
  5. ciddu

    ciddu Member

    Genova Italy
    Andrew, That's great!
    We all needed it very much - thank you!
  6. 767fo

    767fo Member

    Thanks Andrew
  7. jschare

    jschare Active Member

    Cincinnati, Ohio

    Thanks! Just out of curiosity, why did some use order numbers and some use contract numbers? Was there a difference at all or just a choice by the maker?
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    A book would be a bit much, but you should consider maybe making a pamphlet with all the info you have researched.
  9. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    As far as I can make out when contracts were awarded the maker was given a contract number and an order number. For example the order no. 1401-P was used for the RW A2 under the AC 20958 contract with RW. Nowhere have a found an explanation for the difference between an order number and a contract number. I am wondering whether the order number was used to distinguish different orders placed under the same contract with a specific maker for different types of jackets/flying gear.
  10. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    I understand there is guy in the USA who has a book on A2s in the pipeline. Gary Eastman has recently written a book on the subject, but it is not yet available. See this recent thread: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=12560
  11. Rutger

    Rutger Well-Known Member

    Hengelo, Netherlands
    Well, the past few years my wife had the vacation pictures printed like a book, binding and all that, full blown picturebook, not cheapish paper or thin cardboard.
    Just send in the pictures, the text you'd like to add, and hey presto.
    If my wife can do that at the local fotoshop, anyone should be able to do so or similar. It's a digital world, no one gonna stop ya.
    Just an idea, haven't searched for number of pages allowed and all that.
    Worth a try to have all members make a couple of pics of their originals, have them centrally categorized, lots of info added, and digitally prepped to be printed.
    Have the digital copy downloadable for a decent price, members only.
    Put in a separate section for repro's (but where to draw the line?).
    Well Platon had a similar idea, and he was kind of shot down on it.

    What's with the cd of JC, is that like a digital book, or is it a large file with pics but no info?
    I love books with razor sharp pics and loads of interesting facts. Any juicy stories from either manufacturers or end users mixed in all the better.

    Is Gary working on his A2 book? I hope so, will send ELC an email to ask, I really would love that. Latest I heard the book would not be published, but I didn't ask at the source.
  12. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    Point taken, but a book on A2 jackets would need to be thoroughly research in the US archives which would be a considerable undertaking, yet very worthwhile.
  13. Dr H

    Dr H Well-Known Member

    Somerset, UK
    It's similar to the website. A page of text detailing the nuances of AAF or USN jackets in chronological order with more detailed images of the jackets along with shots of them being worn.
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Thanks Andrew!!!!!!!!!!1 :D :D :D

    Yes!!! Make it a sticky please.

    Agree, I guess that should be it.
  15. YoungMedic

    YoungMedic Active Member

    Great work! Thank You!
  16. TankBuster

    TankBuster Active Member

    Very Nice Andrew! Thanks for the post! I just printed this out and added it to my research file in case there is ever a future need for the info.
  17. Jaguar46

    Jaguar46 New Member

    San Rafael, California
    What newspapers are you reading? Do you collect old issues of Stars and Stripes?
  18. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    Old Wartime papers such as The Newburgh News, The New York Times and The Poughkeepsie New Yorker. There are plenty on line and sometimes they advertise the award of contracts to local makers.
  19. Roughwear

    Roughwear Well-Known Member

    I have been comparing contract numbers for different types of Wartime jackets and the picture that I presented about the difference between contracts and orders is less clear now.

    Aero was given an order in 1942 for B3 and B6 jackets under the same order number: 42-5110-P.

    Aero also received an order in 1943 for B3, B6 and AN-J4 jackets under the 43-13616AF order number.
    Arnoff Shoe Co was awarded the next order in sequence-43-13617AF at the same time for B3, B6 and AN-J4 jackets.

    A little later Poughkeepsie was awarded the 43-16804 order for B6 and AN-J4 jackets and AN-T35 trousers.

    There are two examples of B3 and D1 jackets being made under the same contract, the 1941 AC 17755 contract awarded to Aero and the next contract, AC 17756, awarded to RW for B3 and D1 jackets.

    It is interesting to note that Aero was awarded a contract for B7 jackets under the 42-15141-P contract and at the same time under the next sequential order number, 42-15142-P, for A2 jackets. Why were they not both given the same order number as was sometimes the case with other Aero orders?

    I am now wondering whether there was really much difference between contracts and orders in the War, apart from the numbering, or were there just inconsistencies at the time which could sometimes blurr contracts and orders?

    More research is needed here I think.
  20. ButteMT61

    ButteMT61 Well-Known Member

    Pasadena, CA USA
    Well hell, if YOU don't know, who here will? Interesting stuff, but given it was government - I'd say that you know this much is amazing. Love reading this info Andrew. Thanks for posting it up...

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