A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jacket!

johnwayne

Well-Known Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

Oh dear! I am surprised Jon that you hadn't written before now and there are many members here I'm sure who will have some empathy with you. Obviuosly the benefits of the web and inparticular a forum like this allow us to indulge ourselves in our passions and clearly you and Andrew are very like minded in yours, the same love of Irvins. However, is it not just a case of you beating Andrew to it - probably it's been an intention of his for quite some time and only he can say. If I was in yours or Andrew shoes I'd be a little more concerned about the likes of ELC - what's also to say that Gary won't up his game too - surely if anyone can he's the one who could undercut you and produce them in a shorter time scale!!
Yes, competition is good and starting a business is a gamble at the best of times, but at times like these when the financial situation worldwide is affecting us all your disappointment is particulalry understandable although, I'm trying to be devil's advocate here too as I know Andrew and personally seen his collection, so his passion is even greater than I appreciate - can you and Andrew not get your heads together, maybe there could be some mutual benefit to be gained here for you both?

cheers
Wayne
 

John Lever

Moderator
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

I only knew about the project and have not been involved in the process. It has all been confidential and I promised not to say any thing.
 

Roughwear

Well-Known Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

Competition is healthy and the intention of the people behind the A.M. Clothing project is to produce the most accurate early Irvins on the market. We are aiming at high end collectors and enthusiasts who want a stitch for stitch copy of a 1938 IAC jacket with the correct zips. Already there is considerable interest in the project with people asking me if they can place orders. The project has been ten years in planning and has been stepped up during the last 14 months or so. A decision was taken at an early stage not to announce the project publicly until we had sorted the zips, labels and fleece. There was no intention to upset Jon in France and I wish him well with his venture.
 

omarco

Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

Hey Jon, Andrews right competition is a good thing, and you shouldn't be intimidated by it, judging from your work you'll have no problem selling as many jackets as you can make. Many will be keen to go for the one man band outfit as well. I certainly would if i was in the market for an Irvin. Have you considered spreading out into other contacts? it seems to me there is a bit of a shortfall for certain contracts that aren't served well in Europe, especially when quality and accuracy is taken into account.
 

PADDY_M

Well-Known Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

Andrew is focusing on just one pre-war model by one manufacturer. There's plenty of room for other projects by other enthusiasts :)
 

deeb7

New Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

omarco said:
Hey Jon, Andrews right competition is a good thing, and you shouldn't be intimidated by it ...
Jon said in his own post Nobody should be frightened of competition ... but not giving him a heads up isn't a very good look. Others here seem to have prior knowledge of the new project, so it may have already cost him some orders.
 

John Lever

Moderator
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

I have known for over a year, and plan to have jackets from both parties. Jon is an artist and he will be able to add that something to his work with all his passion and colour awareness and may also be willing to do custom work.
 

deeb7

New Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

John Lever said:
I have known for over a year, and plan to have jackets from both parties.
That's funny, I was thinking that's exactly what you would do. :lol:
 

rich

New Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

PADDY_M said:
Andrew is focusing on just one pre-war model by one manufacturer. There's plenty of room for other projects by other enthusiasts :)
Andrew's timing is certainly exquisite. If you rewind back the 10 (ten) years his project has been in the pipeline, who would have imagined it would come into fruition just a few days after another member is trying to fill his order book. The coincidence is really quite uncanny. You could almost imagine it's actually about diverting interest away from a very public project where everything was in the open. The lack of details in Roughwear's presentation, hush-hush information divulged only to certain parties, and no pictures of the finished item could make it look like, at this stage, as though it's all been rushed through. (That zip aint worth thousands of pounds, that's for sure.)
I fervently hope Jon will prosper because he will be able to offer a custom fit rather than a 'stitch perfect' repro which fundamentally means a jacket which will be too long in the arms and too short in the body - well, at least for those of us who want to wear jackets for things other than flying in aircraft.
 

Roughwear

Well-Known Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

deeb7 said:
omarco said:
Hey Jon, Andrews right competition is a good thing, and you shouldn't be intimidated by it ...
Jon said in his own post Nobody should be frightened of competition ... but not giving him a heads up isn't a very good look. Others here seem to have prior knowledge of the new project, so it may have already cost him some orders.

I'm afraid I don't agree with this David. If I follow your logic David I should have informed all the other makers of Irvin type jackets long before I posted here in case the A.M. project would cost them orders! The decision to post here was not mine alone. People will now have a greater choice if they want an accurate Irvin repro and clearly there may be some people out there who would have ordered one of Jon's jackets but now may have changed their minds. However I'm sure the market is large enough to support both ventures.
 

ButteMT61

Well-Known Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

deeb7 said:
omarco said:
Hey Jon, Andrews right competition is a good thing, and you shouldn't be intimidated by it ...
Jon said in his own post Nobody should be frightened of competition ... but not giving him a heads up isn't a very good look. Others here seem to have prior knowledge of the new project, so it may have already cost him some orders.
In the world of Google and Apple, I get keeping product development secret. In this small community however, it would seem to me that a gentlemanly gesture would have been to let Jon know as many others seem to have known. Just my 2¢, feels a little <fill in the blank> given the small(ish) community we're all part of.
Hope it all works out. I don't like seeing bad feelings when it comes to these things - especially when so many are trying to get by in a bad economy...
 

Roughwear

Well-Known Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

rich said:
PADDY_M said:
Andrew is focusing on just one pre-war model by one manufacturer. There's plenty of room for other projects by other enthusiasts :)
Andrew's timing is certainly exquisite. If you rewind back the 10 (ten) years his project has been in the pipeline, who would have imagined it would come into fruition just a few days after another member is trying to fill his order book. The coincidence is really quite uncanny. You could almost imagine it's actually about diverting interest away from a very public project where everything was in the open. The lack of details in Roughwear's presentation, hush-hush information divulged only to certain parties, and no pictures of the finished item could make it look like, at this stage, as though it's all been rushed through. (That zip aint worth thousands of pounds, that's for sure.)
I fervently hope Jon will prosper because he will be able to offer a custom fit rather than a 'stitch perfect' repro which fundamentally means a jacket which will be too long in the arms and too short in the body - well, at least for those of us who want to wear jackets for things other than flying in aircraft.
Are you saying you want to order an A.M. jacket Rich?
 

Roughwear

Well-Known Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

ButteMT61 said:
deeb7 said:
omarco said:
Hey Jon, Andrews right competition is a good thing, and you shouldn't be intimidated by it ...
Jon said in his own post Nobody should be frightened of competition ... but not giving him a heads up isn't a very good look. Others here seem to have prior knowledge of the new project, so it may have already cost him some orders.
In the world of Google and Apple, I get keeping product development secret. In this small community however, it would seem to me that a gentlemanly gesture would have been to let Jon know as many others seem to have known. Just my 2¢, feels a little <fill in the blank> given the small(ish) community we're all part of.
Hope it all works out. I don't like seeing bad feelings when it comes to these things - especially when so many are trying to get by in a bad economy...

A decision was made to keep the project secret until the labels and zips were developed. The decision to post here and elsewhere was made sometime ago. None of the backers felt under any obligation to let Jon, Gary Eastman etc..know about the project before going public. I doubt if others in the business world would have done so to their potential competitors!
 

deeb7

New Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

Roughwear said:
I'm afraid I don't agree with this David. If I follow your logic David I should have informed all the other makers of Irvin type jackets long before I posted here in case the A.M. project would cost them orders!
I don't think that's the same thing at all, Andrew ... and Rich's post sums it up nicely.
 

Roughwear

Well-Known Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

deeb7 said:
Roughwear said:
I'm afraid I don't agree with this David. If I follow your logic David I should have informed all the other makers of Irvin type jackets long before I posted here in case the A.M. project would cost them orders!
I don't think that's the same thing at all, Andrew ... and Rich's post sums it up nicely.

I don't agree with you, but the great thing about this forum is that everyone is entilted to their opinions.
 

Roughwear

Well-Known Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

Thanks for your interest and lively debate about the A.M. jacket project and to those wishing to place orders. I will keep you up-dated of progress over coming weeks.
 

deeb7

New Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

If you're paying attention Ian ... Aero aren't off the hook yet. ;)
 

ButteMT61

Well-Known Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

I believe that Jon and "Kelso" have done that. It's fine. People will make up their own minds. Like I said, it ain't Apple and Google here, it's a small community and I think the reactions say it all. Good luck.
 

John Lever

Moderator
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

I have to say that Andrew is acting as a spokesman here for the main player who is not a member of this forum so lets not give him grief.
 

Dr H

Well-Known Member
Re: A.M. Clothing Irvin Jackets-the ultimate RAF fleece jack

@ David
If that's the case I hope the sleeve profile is right...
And that the two sleeves are the same length... :roll:
 
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