74th Fighter Squadron

[a2jacketpatches]

For many years I've been reproducing the 75th and 76th fighter Squadron patches but never the 74th because I just wasn't sure exactly what it was, until recently. The second photo posted clearly shows several 74th FS members wearing the front part of the CATF emblem with the other half of the tiger body omitted. All other reference I've seen, and every other opinion seems to be that the 74th FS emblem was the tiger, lightning bolt, and shield, same as the official 23rd Fighter Group. My common sense tells me that any 74th member wearing the 23rd was because the 74th FS was in the 23rd FG. The photographic evidence of these 74th members wearing a modified version of the CATF is good enough for me so that's my story and I'm sticking to it. On top of this, the USAF 74th bounced back and fourth with both emblems right up to present day without any rhyme or reason.

 

[dujardin]

absolutely splendid

he must be of the best effect on an A1

 

[shedonwanna]

Have never seen this version before. Looks like the legs are just obscured in the shadows. The CATF design was used early in the transition by all squadrons in the 23rd. Most of the 74th squadron I've seen used the tiger/bolt on a shield. Some of the CATF that transitioned to 23rd FG just kept their CATF patches no mater which squadron they were assigned. Until the Disney design was introduced the CATF design was used. Tex Hill had the Disney design on his jacket and he was there from the start. At first everyone just did what they wanted and had local tradesmen make what they wanted. Two images from my files:

 

[a2jacketpatches]

The original photo is pretty high resolution, so when you close in, most of those patches the other side of the tiger is gone. You can see that one guy does have the complete design, but the others are just the front part. I agree that early on everyone just did what they wanted and that's my guess with the 23rd FG emblem. I just can't see it being the official 74th emblem if it was their official group emblem as well. The 74th also used the half CATF at times long after the war, and with this photo of most of them wearing it during the war, like I said, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Maurer and Maurer, can say so, but some of their info is inncorrect. If you look hard enough for the original photo that I posted, you'll find it and can examine it for yourself.

You may see most 74th jackets using the Tiger on shield, but that is still just a handfull.

 

[shedonwanna]

You've got photographic evidence and and the same design has been used in more modern times too. With and without "legs" you can claim the design as used by 74th pilots. Now get busy and make more...

 

[a2jacketpatches]

You've got photographic evidence and and the same design has been used in more modern times too. With and without "legs" you can claim the design as used by 74th pilots. Now get busy and make more...

Done, had the tigers and parts sitting around already, same one I used for large back patches. The reasoning behind my theory is clearly explained in the listing so maybe this will change the world thought on 74th FS insignia.

 

[TankBuster]

Since all of these early 23rd FG patches were produced on silk panels could it just be that some of the 23rd fighter group guys in general trimmed the legs off before they put them on their jackets? The only one I have seen on a jacket was a trimmed down version of the silk panel patch shown above.
I have seen that photo many times and have always assumed that is what occurred there vs being a actual squadron patch.

I actually have one of the uncut CATF patches in my collection that came from a 75th pilot.

Either way it's a cool patch that you have produced.

Here's my panel:

Sorry for the crappy phone pic....................

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Since all of these early 23rd FG patches were produced on silk panels could it just be that some of the 23rd fighter group guys in general trimmed the legs off before they put them on their jackets? The only one I have seen on a jacket was a trimmed down version of the silk panel patch shown above.
I have seen that photo many times and have always assumed that is what occurred there vs being a actual squadron patch.

I actually have one of the uncut CATF patches in my collection that came from a 75th pilot.

Either way it's a cool patch that you have produced.

Here's my panel:

Sorry for the crappy phone pic....................

I'm not really concerned with the actual Squadron Patch as I am about the emblem. Whether it's painted, embroidered silk scarf, or whatever, it is distinctive as opposed to the idea of the 23rd FG emblem being same as the 74th FS. Can't say that I've seen another example of this confusion anywhere else in U.S. military history. The whole idea behind a unit emblem is to identify one unit from the next.

Any and all of my patches are simply based on the actual emblem used. I can't say I've seen an original multi-piece leather CATF, but it's not impossible. I have seen questionable painted CATF's and an embroidered on brown wool backing that is most likely post war. Bottom line is that everywhere you turn, something contradicts the next. Original CATF's labeled 23rd Fighter Group, 23rd Fighter Group's labeled 74th Fighter Squadron, simple 14th AF shoulder patches labeled Flying Tigers, etc. The only thing that makes sense to me is this photo so far, not only is it photographic proof, but makes perfect sense as well.

 

[TankBuster]

I'm with you completely about how confusing the 74th and 23rd patches can become. I did not mean to come across as negative. It's a interesting topic that I'm sure if dug into deeper could make for some interesting twists and turns! Again, I think the patch you made is a very cool piece.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

I'm with you completely about how confusing the 74th and 23rd patches can become. I did not mean to come across as negative. It's a interesting topic that I'm sure if dug into deeper could make for some interesting twists and turns! Again, I think the patch you made is a very cool piece.

Not taken as negative at all, actually your thoughts are all positive and back up mine in a way. I've dug as deep as I can on this matter and all I ever found was one guy saying this, and another saying that. Most cold hard evidence of original items out there points to personal preference and the confusion of CACW to CATF to 14th AF to 23rd FG, all in a very short amount of time.

 

[shedonwanna]

Here is another photo from the national archives that includes some of the same personnel and jackets. When magnified it appears the legs may be there on the jackets from the previous photo. I get a faint light line on these two jackets. The design appears to be centered on a leather disc with the head and star at the 11 o'clock position and legs close to the 5 o'clock position. There appears to be at least three sizes/variations... Maybe we can find a portrait of one of these pilots wearing a jacket that would give us a better idea of design and construction. Almost appear to be painted or decal. Not sure if this really changes our "no legs" idea. Anyway, add this to your archives for additional reference.

 

[shedonwanna]

Ok, two more related photos. Some early CATF patches and the AVG Flying Tiger decal being painted over/converted. This design may have preceded the squadrons to distinguish from the AVG which had disbanded.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Thanks for digging these up, azz end of tiger or no azz end of tiger, at least the tiger / bolt / shield isn't confusing things.

 

[JDAM]

Leather patch mit legs.

A clearer pic of the CATF / early 23rd patch. Major John Alison, 23rd FG. Looks like a nice 16160.



And another. Very clearly a rather thick leather.



Alison, July 1942, wearing M422, shortly before issue of A-2...

 

[6148th T.C.Squadron]

Tex Hill's got the scarf and stance down, what a guy!

 

[2jakes]

Thanks for sharing such unique images & information.

This is a "homemade" attempt I made a while back.
It is not accurate but just a rendition while waiting for
a patch I ordered .

 

[JDAM]

The earliest photographic evidence I have seen of the later and more widely recognized 23rd patch is Jan 1943.

 

[JDAM]

Thanks for sharing such unique images & information.

This is a "homemade" attempt I made a while back.
It is not accurate but just a rendition while waiting for
a patch I ordered .

Looks a good effort to me. Nice job! With the benefit of the above images I am sure someone could make a fine repro.

 

[2jakes]

Tex Hill's got the scarf and stance down, what a guy!

Many years ago, I met Tex Hill in San Antonio.
Actually, I just was passing by & he spotted the CBI patch on my
jacket. He informed me that it was on the wrong shoulder. I thanked
him. I wish now I had taken the time to talk to him more about his
experiences with the Flying Tigers.

 

[6148th T.C.Squadron]

You must realize, there is no absolute on individual hand made patches during the war. Color and design variations abound. The patch looks great, and could easily pass as an original.