1975 Greenbrier J-CWFS

[watchmanjimg]

My 1976 model only has MIL-J-83388A on the label, so what would you call those jackets before the CWU-45/P?

OK, so as I understand it, the CWU-17/P had a hood and the means to attach it, the CWU-45/P didn't. You could retrofit a hood to a 45/P using the buttons supplied with it. I assume the 'CWU-45/P (mod)' in 'Suit up!' is a -45/P with a retrofitted hood? Would a -17/P say so on the label?

Gentlemen, these are good questions. I've never owned nor seen any examples of jackets produced under the original MIL-J-83388 spec so I can't comment on what the label says though I suspect it would not bear the CWU-17/P designation. I also find it odd that repeated Google searches fail to turn up so much as a single photo--even the excellent LJ Militaria website incorrectly states that the first winter CWU pattern was produced under MIL-J-83388A. However, we at least know the following:

1.) Per the USAF Technical Order concerning maintenance of Nomex flight gear (originally printed on 15 October 1972 and reprinted 16 January 1984 as Army TM 10-8400-202-13/Air Force TO 14P3-1-112) as well as the 1982 US Navy Rate Training Manual for Aircrew Survival Equipmentman (links to both publications are supplied earlier in the thread), the CWU-17/P is distinguished from the CWU-45/P insofar as it was supplied with a detachable hood and presumably manufactured with a means of attaching it.

2.) Jackets dated 1975 and 1976 are stated to have been produced under MIL-J-83388A specs dated 5 September 1973, are devoid of any "CWU" labeling, and lack attaching points for a hood, although instructions for modifying these jackets to accept a hood are provided in the above-referenced Army/Air Force technical publication.

3.) Jackets produced under MIL-J-83388A from 1977 on are expressly labeled "CWU-45/P," as are subsequent cold-weather versions.

Based on the foregoing, my best guess is that the CWU-17/P was unlikely to have been labeled as such although I imagine it must have been labeled MIL-J-83388 versus the later A revision. However, we do know that the A revision ultimately bore the CWU-45/P designation so I have no problem calling the '75 and '76 jackets "pre-CWUs" or "early CWU-45s." In any case it now appears safe to say that the 83388A jackets are not CWU-17/Ps.

 

[MikeyB-17]

Jim, many thanks for your input on all this. I've been puzzled for a long time about the various incarnations of the -45/P.

 

[watchmanjimg]

Jim, many thanks for your input on all this. I've been puzzled for a long time about the various incarnations of the -45/P.

Mikey, the pleasure was all mine. Here's hoping we'll all move forward with a greater understanding of the development of the CWU series. Enjoy your new jacket!

 

[Stony]

Thank you for posting the information Jim. My version of the jacket from now on will be referred to as a MIL-J-83388.

 

[watchmanjimg]

Thank you for posting the information Jim. My version of the jacket from now on will be referred to as a MIL-J-83388.

You're welcome, Stony, but isn't your jacket a MIL-J-83388A?

 

[Stony]

You're welcome, Stony, but isn't your jacket a MIL-J-83388A?

Oops! Yes it is. Dated 1976.

 

[deeb7]

Gentlemen, these are good questions. I've never owned nor seen any examples of jackets produced under the original MIL-J-83388 spec so I can't comment on what the label says though I suspect it would not bear the CWU-17/P designation.

In their little chart at the end of the section, Suit Up lists the first model as follows:

• J-CWFS (CWU-17/P)
  
  Designation/Specification
  
  Jacket-Cold Weather Flyer's System (Detachable Hood)
  Type CWU-17P, mIL-J-83388

I'm guessing their bracketing of CWU-17P means that it doesn't appear on the label, so you all seem to be in agreement.

 

[HHjackets]

what is the fabric/size of the orange flag?

 

[MikeyB-17]

what is the fabric/size of the orange flag?

It's a rough square of silky fabric, Rayon or similar, measuring about 50 inches by 52.

 

[Peter Graham]

what is the fabric/size of the orange flag?

It's a rough square of silky fabric, Rayon or similar, measuring about 50 inches by 52.

That's a fair size. Bet you didn't get it folded up so small after you measured it.

 

[MikeyB-17]

what is the fabric/size of the orange flag?

It's a rough square of silky fabric, Rayon or similar, measuring about 50 inches by 52.

That's a fair size. Bet you didn't get it folded up so small after you measured it.

It's not too bad-it has a network of clearly defined creases, so it's just a case of making sure you fold it up the right way-it's like folding up a map! Not a thing I will be making a habit of though-the edges are unfinished and threads are already coming loose.

 

[HHjackets]

thank you for taking the time to unfold and measure it.

 

[MikeyB-17]

Not a problem-good practice for if I ever get shot down wearing it!

 

[herk115]

OK, so as I understand it, the CWU-17/P had a hood and the means to attach it, the CWU-45/P didn't. You could retrofit a hood to a 45/P using the buttons supplied with it. I assume the 'CWU-45/P (mod)' in 'Suit up!' is a -45/P with a retrofitted hood? Would a -17/P say so on the label?

Okay, you guys may have just cleared up a minor mystery for me. When I was issued my flying gear in 1985 at Little Rock AFB, I recall being issued a hood. As I recall the hood was green, nylon-like, had fur (mouton?) around the edges, and had a loop of wire sewn inside so it could be shaped to fit. I was a bit curious about being issued a hood with no coat, but chalked it up to the air force's mysterious ways. My assumption then was that it was meant for my field jacket, but this was a flying gear issue, and my field jacket already had a hood. I didn't lose sleep over it and tossed the hood into my B-4 bag where it languished for who knows how long. It would pop up every now and again, and I'd wonder about it. I don't recall if there were any buttons or velcro for attachment. I don't recall being issued any kit containing buttons or velcro for that purpose, just a jacketless hood. But the hood came in the same issue as my nomex flight jackets, so this could very well have the hood you guys are discussing. I don't know whatever became of it, but it's long gone now.

Second, what is this "Suit Up!" you guys are talking about? Never heard of it.

Cheers,

Larry

 

[MikeyB-17]

'Suit Up! The Flight Jacket' by Kesaharu Imai, World Photo press ISBN4-8465-2012-9.

A book in Japanese but full of pics of flight jackets. No longer the definitive resource it once was, but still very informative and interesting and well worth picking up.