When Does It Stop!

Discussion in 'Forum Questions / Problems' started by B-Man2, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. B-Man2

    B-Man2 Well-Known Member

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    As recent as last week this forum collectively decided that we were no longer going to tolerate outside individuals coming on to the forum for the exclusive purpose of pricing and attempting to sell jackets and other items. We came together to formulate new guidelines with timelines for new individuals wanting membership in this forum. As a result we now have specific rules in effect for newbies attempting to sell their wares. While I was part of the group that agreed with this decision, I was never personally offended by the fact that some guy was trying to price out his jacket with no interest in being part of our forum however, I felt that if I wasn't going to be part of the solution, then by lack of action I would certainly be part of the problem. So I voted to stop the practice.
    With this in mind, I would like to address a problem that seems more offensive than a new guy trying to sell jackets on the forum.
    The Buy/Sell guidelines have been in effect for as long as most of us have been members here. They are very specific for those members wanting to sell jackets/items on this forum. The guidelines were put into place out of a sense of fairness to us all. However, in the time that I have been a member here, these guidelines have been disregarded and circumvented several times, by members of this forum with no consequences. On no less than four occasions, I have lost out on jackets which I was interested in purchasing, because the seller conducted a behind the scenes sale, in violation of the policy. While having a newbie attempt to price out or sell a jacket here is annoying, I find it personally offensive that long established members of this forum would intentionally circumvent the selling guidelines in an effort to "be first in line" thereby screwing the rest of us out of a fair chance to purchase the jacket. Now if this has never happened to you, then I can see how you might consider this as no big deal however, lets just focus for a second on the fact that we collectively as a group are supposed to have each others backs so to speak. To look out for each other in the sense that we hopefully would not take advantage of each other in a sale. That we can be relied upon to be honest with each other and demonstrate a certain amount of integrity...........unfortunately that all seems to go out the window, on those occasions when two members decide that it in their best personal interests, for financial gain or to acquire that long awaited special jacket, to ignore the rules.
    If we continue to permit this to happen, in blatant violation of the policy, with no consequences' for the offending parties, then why have the policy at all. Why do we continue to enforce the policy with the occasional statement from the moderators that "all transactions must conform to the buy/sell guidelines" with no consequences for the violators. If as a group, we can come together to set new standards concerning new membership in the forum, then we certainly should come together to regulate and set new standards with penalties/consequences for those who choose to do side bar and behind the scenes sales in violation of the Buy/ Sell policy.
    I welcome all responses.
    Cheers
    B-Man2
     
  2. Steve27752

    Steve27752 Well-Known Member

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    Be more specific and name names.
     
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  3. B-Man2

    B-Man2 Well-Known Member

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    Steve;
    I don't think naming is the answer, but a revision of policy might be.
    The thread is out there and is very recent.
     
  4. Steve27752

    Steve27752 Well-Known Member

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    I am happy with the new selling rules. To which thread are you referring to?
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  5. B-Man2

    B-Man2 Well-Known Member

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    1,785
    Like I said....I honestly don't see the purpose of naming anyone. That doesn't address the issue.
    If it hasn't happened to you before then I understand how you might not see a need for change and I respect your opinion.
     
  6. Persimmon

    Persimmon Well-Known Member

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    Can you help us poor fools ( ie ) me - in this case - to guide me to what the goodness do you mean.
    Please advise - What thread and what policy
     
  7. Steve27752

    Steve27752 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but I am really confused. What has happened?
     
  8. dmar836

    dmar836 Well-Known Member

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    B-Man2,
    I went back two weeks which is further back than the discussion on the new policy ended and saw no Buy/Sell posts where you did more than compliment the item. Unless this is referring to old deals(which it doesn't sound) I can only assume that means you PM'd the seller but lost out anyway? If so, how can you be sure you were "first" or that there was foul play? I'm sure you are upset but I don't know how we can empathize with no printed record to review. We don't need names but if a long-time member is undercutting us as a group only a link to or explanation of the thread would show it.
    I'm sure you are not one of them but there have been deals, even openly here, with disappointed buyers who were very accusatory and impatient - more than once. Personally speaking, I might have reservations selling to them even if they responded to me first. No offense intended to any one member but unless "first PM" or "First Response" is binding, I would still feel I have the right to sell to the party I choose. Maybe I'm not following the rules?
    Dave
     
  9. B-Man2

    B-Man2 Well-Known Member

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    1,785
    My posting is currently under review and rather than cause additional confusion I'll refrain from any further posts until the review is completed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  10. ButteMT61

    ButteMT61 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair to what @B-Man2 is saying, I know that I had this happen at least once on TFL, and possibly once here a long time ago.
    That's why the "PM me" thing sucks. I think that the first person to reply to a thread should have first dibs, period.
    There's no way sans bugging a host otherwise to know if funny business went on.
     
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  11. dmar836

    dmar836 Well-Known Member

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    I need to reread the rules. The first person who posts they want it gets it even if you don't want to sell it to them? A PM posts just as fast and time marked as a forum post so unless that breaks the rules, it wouldn't necessarily cause foul play. I guess doing both would be safe practice. Perhaps the only "fair" way would be to consign it "to the forum" and mods would handle the communication. I guess. Then again I would never offer anything for sale, item or services, if I am "required" to do so regardless of who wants it or how they could treat me.
    Without ruining the "investigation" what exactly are you guys implying happens in these cases?
    Dave
     
  12. B-Man2

    B-Man2 Well-Known Member

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    A moderator was kind enough to take the time to review the situation I referred to in my posting. Without creating any further confusion, I was advised that there was nothing that could be done about the matter. With respect for the moderator and this forum I will limit further posts on this topic. Thank you all for your patience.
    B-Man2
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
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  13. CBI

    CBI Well-Known Member

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    I always say, the first person who PM's me saying, "I will buy it" gets it. I don't think the person to contact you with questions "only" gets to be first to buy. I have had prospective buyers dick me around with that. The first person who makes an actual offer gets it and by the way, don't say, "I will buy it" then, "oh, before I send the $, let me ask you these 10 questions..........."

    Oh, really you remeasured the jacket and zipper the is 24 1/8 inches, not the originally listed 24 inches, I think I will pass...................F that!

    We aren;t running a business here, just letting stuff go.............keep it easy. As to the OP, yep happens a lot, nothing with can do, people are pigs sometimes.

    I have some Buy/Sell pet peeves as well but will remain unsaid................
     
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  14. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

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    Re: my thread from December, just in case (i'm sure you're not but just making sure since there was come negativity there) anyone's concerned i've sold those jackets don't be. They're sitting in my garage waiting for me to make a decision to sell and where to do it. I'll also be sure to announce it here first :)

    On top of that catching up with new work flowing in is way more important.
     
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  15. dmar836

    dmar836 Well-Known Member

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    I don't particularly care to know who the offender was but, unfortunately, "annonomous" offenses will make us all wonder if we are "that guy".
     
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  16. Smithy

    Smithy Well-Known Member

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    Burt, one thing that might have happened is that jackets could have been sold outside of VLJ. A lot of members here are members on other fora, militaria discussion boards and reenactment groups, there's the distinct possibility that a jacket can be snapped up by a member's contacts outside of VLJ. I'm not saying that that happened for all four of the jackets that you missed out on but it's not uncommon for jackets seen and talked about on here to get snapped up via other avenues as a lot of members are active in other areas.

    Always frustrating to miss out on something and especially if you feel like you've been diddled but it's worth keeping the above in mind as it has and does often happen. Like I said it's probably unlikely in all four instances but there could me one or two occasions where the seller hasn't pulled a fastie but has sold a jacket through another DB or even to a mate.

    Sorry to hear about your frustration though.

    Cheers,

    Tim
     
  17. ButteMT61

    ButteMT61 Well-Known Member

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    Or, make people think about what a drag it is to get hosed. Just sayin'.
    @CBI makes good points about "potential" buyers. I'm guilty of some of the sins he mentioned. I try not to be "that guy" too, but I have if I'm honest...
     
  18. Silver Surfer

    Silver Surfer Well-Known Member

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    as the mahatma said, "if it is not meant to be, it is not meant to be"
     
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  19. Garylafortuna

    Garylafortuna Active Member

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    Upon reading B-Man2's post I have to say that I am guilty of using private messages for all of my eight purchases from other members. But it certainly was not done with the purpose of undercutting or hornswoggling anyone. In any given private business transaction, the seller I believe should have the final say to whom the merchandise goes. The other point I would like to make is; perhaps some of us do not wish our purchases to be a matter of public knowledge. If we happen to lose out on a sale, it is sometimes frustrating, but that is the democratic way.
     
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  20. dmar836

    dmar836 Well-Known Member

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    I assumed everyone went to PM for such things including the OP. I think everyone agrees that haggling and/or the exchange of personal information on a forum would be inappropriate.
    Dave
     
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