Schott HH Question...

Discussion in 'Moto / Utility Jackets' started by Tommer45, Mar 9, 2009.

  1. Tommer45

    Tommer45 New Member

    Messages:
    224
    Location:
    New Jersey
    So I just typed up a nice long post about my Schott jacket, and then a blackout caused it all to disappear. Let's hope I can make it through this one...

    I have a Schott 641HH...

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    ....and I've never really been super pleased with the feel of the HH. It's always had a sort of plastic-like feel to it. The jacket never really took to my shape like leather does (even after soaking it and wearing it). There was just something I disliked about it.

    So over the weekend I decided that since I never quite liked the quilted lining the jacket had, I'd cut it out and get it relined. Well upon removing the lining, I found out why I have hated Schott's HH so much, and maybe someone on the forum can enlighten me on what I found. There was a thick white felt attached to the rough side of the leather. It's nothing you can see on the finished product, but once you remove the lining it's everywhere. It's on every piece of leather used to make the jacket. It's firmly attached to the leather, but with some work you can peel it off and then cut it near the stitching. The following pics that I just took with my phone show what I mean...

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    In the bottom picture you can see black stuff on the underside of the felt.. that's from peeling it off the rough side of the leather.. it's really stuck to it. I just don't know why this stuff is used on the jacket... could it be to make us think the leather is more heavyweight than it really is? It really added to the stiff feel of the jacket, and the HH feels pretty thin after removal of the felt. Anybody know why the leather is done like this? The HH now feels great and I can't wait to get the jacket relined... it finally feels like real leather as opposed to something weird and unexplainable. Just looking for some answers.

    Tommer
     
  2. Vcruiser

    Vcruiser Well-Known Member

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    I'm not really sure...but since you had a quilted lining...I would assume it to be a form of light insulation bonded between the liner and the leather....
    Van
     
  3. Tommer45

    Tommer45 New Member

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    224
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Hey Van.. yeah that's a possibility. It just gave the leather a weird feel to it.. I don't know why they'd think it was a good idea to use.

    Anyone else with a Schott HH jacket feel that the leather isn't anything like other HH jackets you own?
     
  4. Vcruiser

    Vcruiser Well-Known Member

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    3,069
    Location:
    EastCentral Indiana
    Tommer
    I only own one Schott HH jacket that is my normal riding jacket...and it is quite different than my Aero HH jackets.
    The Schott HH seems much heavier dyed...and I've often thought that the finish has been treated with some kind of water repellant as well. Not entirely sure...but it beads up when wet like a fresh Zaino wax job.
    Van
     
  5. atkins

    atkins Member

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    981
    Location:
    Indonesia
    Tommer,

    It could have been Schott's answer to extra warmth and protection at the same time. For thinner fellow like me this type of leather jacket will make me look a lot bulkier and thicker. Handsome moto jacket btw.

    Atkins
     
  6. Miles_Archer

    Miles_Archer New Member

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    308
    Location:
    NYC
    Man that is weird. Out of the hundreds of leather jackets I've owned, I have not once encountered this.
     
  7. deeb7

    deeb7 New Member

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    5,554
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
  8. Vcruiser

    Vcruiser Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,069
    Location:
    EastCentral Indiana
    I'm really not so sure it is so weird considering the quilted liner. Some 'vintage"..or older quilted liners had heavier filler that could break up or sag in the quilting over time and the elements...especially after getting wet(soaked). With broken threads in the quilting the batting could get quite "lumpy". The newer thinner insulation..such as "thinsulate" can be quite warm(sometimes too efficient). Some of my older riding jackets ('50s-'60s)just have a satin liner that seems to work well as a additional windbreaker(and once had a zipout cold weather liner). I like how easily these type liners slip off and on. "For me" the newer thinner slightly insulated quilted lining is not excessively hot in milder weather nor bulky or "puffy" but still slips on easy with the satiny material. In damp nighttime or early morning riding they do seem quite comfy. However..I don't wear a leather jacket in sunny hot weather while riding...but do carry one with me. I've never ripped a newer jacket apart to examine the lightweight insulation...but with older quilted liners (where the liner is worn through)..it was easy to see a big difference. Todays insulation is surely an improvement.
    Van
     
  9. Tommer45

    Tommer45 New Member

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    224
    Location:
    New Jersey
    The write up on that site makes no mention of the liner I'm talking about, just the quilted lining and cotton drill sleeves. But all in all I guess the felt is really just another layer of insulation. The leather does feel much thinner with the felt removed and it should be a very nice hot weather jacket that should be super comfortable. The felt really gave the HH a much stiffer feeling.. the HH on it's own is quite supple and the jacket drapes much better.

    Thanks for all the suggestions. I'd be afraid to buy another Schott jacket with the quilted lining for fear of the same situation. Now I just gotta hope the movie industry picks up here in NY so I can get some cash to re-line the jacket!

    Tommer
     
  10. Tommer45

    Tommer45 New Member

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    224
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Just a few more pics of the star of this thread... quite a looker!

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  11. deeb7

    deeb7 New Member

    Messages:
    5,554
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    For warmth there's an insulated, quilted body liner with fabric lining in the sleeves.

    I took that to mean the felt, unless there was something else under the quilting. :)

    And yes ... it is a looker. It will be a better jacket when you're done with it.
     
  12. Tommer45

    Tommer45 New Member

    Messages:
    224
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Hey David.. the quilted body liner has the insulation in it, and I took the fabric lining in the sleeves to mean that they were lined in cotton drill. Eh who knows at this point! :)

    Maybe I should just email Schott and ask them what's up.

    Tommer
     
  13. deeb7

    deeb7 New Member

    Messages:
    5,554
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Now you're talking .... :lol:

    Maybe you could also ask them if they remember any contract numbers for their "bomber" jackets ??

    Commissioned by the US Army Air Corps at the start of WWII, Irving Schott designed and produced a "bomber jacket" that would serve and protect Our Boys as they fought for liberty in the air over Europe and the Pacific. And on deck, servicemen kept out the cold with Schott's classic melton wool naval pea coat. Rugged and warm, these leather and wool jackets would be produced by Schott for the US Military for the next 60 years.
     
  14. Garzo

    Garzo New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Hey Tommer,

    Gail over at the Schott message boards is a great help and a fountain of knowledge on all things Schott. I'm sure she'll be able to answer any questions.
    http://www.schottnyc.com/forum/
     
  15. Tommer45

    Tommer45 New Member

    Messages:
    224
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Thanks man. I actually just sent Gail an email yesterday. I had an issue with some chaps they made for me (zippers unzipping while riding) so I asked her about that as well as the question about the felt. She's always been great to deal with and I'm looking forward to her emailing me back.

    Tommer
     
  16. Tommer45

    Tommer45 New Member

    Messages:
    224
    Location:
    New Jersey
    So it appears that my initial feeling that the felt was used to make the HH appear more substantial may not have been so far off. I emailed Gail at Schott a question about some faulty zippers on my chaps and also mentioned the felt. Here are her exact words:

    In regards to your question on the material that is in your horsehide jacket. This is a vintage jacket and we still produce this vintage jacket the way it was made 60 years ago. Horsehide may be thick but the fibers holding it together are denser than they are flexible, horsehide is not a leather that is suppose to drape, it is known to have a very rigid hand. The material in the jacket is a heavy fuseable we apply to enhance the body form of the leather and for added protection of the leather when riding.

    Make of it as you will.. I'm sure it still provides some level of insulation but I guess that's not what it is mainly intended for. Without the felt or fuseable the HH drapes very nicely and has totally different properties.. and in fact I like it much more. I took the jacket to my tailor who said he knows a seamstress who can reline the jacket professionally with no problem. I should have a quote from him this week on price. Anyone know a ballpark estimate for a jacket relining?

    Tommer
     
  17. Tommer45

    Tommer45 New Member

    Messages:
    224
    Location:
    New Jersey
    The wait is over and the 641 is back home. I had it relined with a very lightweight quilted lining. I felt the original lining was a little too puffy and way to warm for what I had in mind for this jacket. The felt that was fused to the HH was totally removed and the jacket was relined without it. I really gotta say that I love this jacket now.. before I really disliked the HH (as I have previously explained) and with that felt removed it feels much different...it feels like real leather as opposed to having a plastic/rubbery feel. Drape is better and the jacket has a lighter feel to it and should be a great warm weather riding jacket.

    Pics with the new lining...

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    Some grainage on the back of the jacket...
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    Tommer
     
  18. bseal

    bseal Well-Known Member

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    1,820
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    Looks phenomenal.
     
  19. Who

    Who Member

    Messages:
    83
    I've had many jackets with that white stuff backing onto the rough side of the leather. It's used a lot to give body to leather jackets, as already stated. It gives shape to leather while the tailors are making the jacket. And it's used a lot on thinner, fashion leather. I have looked behind the lining on 8 of my jackets - 6 of them have this white polyester stuff backing them.
     
  20. Powerband

    Powerband New Member

    Messages:
    1
    I like the body on my HH jackets so I think I’ll retain the inner lining material. When the jacket breaks in (5-10 yrs or more!), the feel and suppleness are phenomenal.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018

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