RAF Look a Like Scarfs

[B-Man2]

Just a quick note.
I've been looking for a blue RAF repro silk scarf (Blue polka dot) that's 2 sided silk and doesn't break the bank account. This is far from an accurate repro but it does work (IMHO) and the price is right. With this length you nay be able to make 2 scarfs by cutting it in half. I'll know better when it arrives. Just passing it on for anyone who might be interested.
Cheers
B-Man2

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fashion-Me...var=501934012903&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

 

[Greg Gale]

I have this one, it's really nice:

https://www.supernovascarves.co.uk/navy-silk-polka-dot-mod-scarf.html

 

[Roughwear]

They are considerably cheaper than original Tootal ones and look the part.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

A fringe is essential for the genuine period look

 

[Roughwear]

Not necessarily Ken. Whilst it is true many wore white fringed opera scarves and fringed Tootal scarves for example, non fringed scarves such as university scarves were also worn.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Rayon knitted scarves, the default scarf for all artisans between 1920 & 1950 were also always fringed.
Only Uni Scarves were worn unfringed back in the day but a photo of a pilot in one of those is rarer than rocking horse droppings
An unfringed polka dot scarf will look as out of place to anyone with even a passing knowledge of 1940s period clothing as an Irvin with handwarmers would look to you

 

[Smithy]

I've spoken about this before. Most of the silk scarves worn by RAF aircrew during the war (and during the 30s for that matter) were made of thicker weight silk than most modern silk scarves. It's one of the reasons why the modern ones don't keep their shape when tied and tend to loosen very quickly with wear. Also many of the ones used by RAF aircrew had a silk side and a woollen side (wartime Tootal and Duggie scarves especially were like this). In terms of fringes, some had fringes, some did not. My father's mate who flew with 485 had a polka dot one which a girlfriend purchased for him in London, unfringed. Jack Riddle of 601's one was unfringed. We have several at the museum (silk and rayon) donated and used by 331 and 332 pilots and obtained in England from 1941 to 1945, some are fringed, some are not.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

I've yet to see any Tootal or a Duggie made without a fringe, yes a couple showed up missing their fringe, but made without one? Never.
Going back to when I started in vintage (1963) the 1940s wasn't that far back, it was as easy to pick up WW2 kit as it is to to pick up 90's clothing today.......charity shops are full of it today. Back then, before charity shops existed it all came from jumble sales or rag yards.
I'd love to see photos of these orginally unfringed scarves. (Too improve my knowledge, no ulterior motive) There is one of those RAF Silk/Woven wool scarves(with fringe) in the Aero factory archives, emboidered with a reproduction of the RAF cap badge on the silk side
When all my peers were wearing kaftans, beads and cowbells in 1966, I was wearing Demob Suits and collarless shirts so we are getting into my specialist subject :>).
If Andrew and I were to go on Mastermind, I imagine his specialist subjects would be "The Irvin Jacket" and "The Type A-2" and I certain he'd do well at it.
Mine would be an easy choice, "British Men's Clothing of The 20thCentury" and "National Hunt Racing 1945-Today"
PS I got 14 out of 15 the last time Horse Racing was a Mastermind Subject

 

[Roughwear]

I've spoken about this before. Most of the silk scarves worn by RAF aircrew during the war (and during the 30s for that matter) were made of thicker weight silk than most modern silk scarves. It's one of the reasons why the modern ones don't keep their shape when tied and tend to loosen very quickly with wear. Also many of the ones used by RAF aircrew had a silk side and a woollen side (wartime Tootal and Duggie scarves especially were like this). In terms of fringes, some had fringes, some did not. My father's mate who flew with 485 had a polka dot one which a girlfriend purchased for him in London, unfringed. Jack Riddle of 601's one was unfringed. We have several at the museum (silk and rayon) donated and used by 331 and 332 pilots and obtained in England from 1941 to 1945, some are fringed, some are not.

Thank you Tim. You have added some good examples to demonstrate that a variety of scarves were worn.

 

[B-Man2]

OK .!!!!..,... We seem to have gotten got thru that one reasonably well.... Cheers to all participants!!
Now back to this particular EBay offering which I think barring the purchase of an original wartime Tootal is pretty reasonable for a 2 sided 100% silk repro scarf.

 

[Smithy]

OK .!!!!..,... We seem to have gotten got thru that one reasonably well.... Cheers to all participants!!
Now back to this particular EBay offering which I think barring the purchase of an original wartime Tootal is pretty reasonable for a 2 sided 100% silk repro scarf.

The heft of the material is usually a give away. The wartime ones are usually heftier in material, more so than post war ones, especially 60s and so on. The dimensions of that one are typical of a wartime one and the price is good, so why not Burt.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

£1.50Buy It Now, at least it's fringed and wide enought to make two from

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REDUCED-...320194?hash=item1cb5829cc2:g:hdoAAOSwQrJbWYpO

Or, still under £30 and a Kosher repro

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dress-Scarf-Black-with-White-Polka-Dots-100-Silk-with-Viscose-Fringe/223073474379?_trkparms=aid=555017&algo=PL.CASSINI&ao=1&asc=53529&meid=13e13f060667454baf77fd236473f95d&pid=100508&rk=1&rkt=1&&itm=223073474379&_trksid=p2045573.c100508.m3226

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

OK .!!!!..,... We seem to have gotten got thru that one reasonably well.... Cheers to all participants!!
Now back to this particular EBay offering which I think barring the purchase of an original wartime Tootal is pretty reasonable for a 2 sided 100% silk repro scarf.

Get Mrs B-Man-2 to sew some hand knotted fringes on it if you must buy it. But with that band of solid colour across the bottom it's always going to look more Primark than Period
I know you wouldn't wear an A-2 with Handwarmers

 

[B-Man2]

£1.50Buy It Now, at least it's fringed

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REDUCED-...320194?hash=item1cb5829cc2:g:hdoAAOSwQrJbWYpO

Or, still under £30 and a Kosher repro

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dress-Scarf-Black-with-White-Polka-Dots-100-Silk-with-Viscose-Fringe/223073474379?_trkparms=aid=555017&algo=PL.CASSINI&ao=1&asc=53529&meid=13e13f060667454baf77fd236473f95d&pid=100508&rk=1&rkt=1&&itm=223073474379&_trksid=p2045573.c100508.m3226

Ken
I like both of these.
Question
Were the original Black?
I thought the RAF used blue ones.?
I’m not well versed in period RAF kits so I’m asking from the standpoint of learning more about the subject.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Ken
I like both of these.
Question
Were the original Black?
I thought the RAF used blue ones.?
I’m not well versed in period RAF kits so I’m asking from the standpoint of learning more about the subject.

I've had plenty Black & White from the 40s through my hands whether RAF Crew ever wore that colour is impossible to say with so few colour picks to reference. Law of averages would say yes, although I 'm sure blue was more popular
I'd go for the £1.50 option and keep searching ebay for "Polka Dot Fringed Scarf", I'm sure a blue one will show up at a stupid price......eventually

 

[Smithy]

They used all colours Burt. The blue with white polka dots has become synonymous with the RAF because it was used by Bader and they were a popular fashion piece at the outbreak of the war and before. For example Sir Tim Birkin used one when racing, and they were de rigeur on the slopes in St Moritz even. The most common polka dot combinations I've seen that were actually aircrew used examples are blue and white, burgundy and white, red and white, and bottle green and white. Saying that paisley and other geometric patterns were also common. Some aircrew even used their girlfriends' silk knickers but I won't name names.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Some aircrew even used their girlfriends' silk knickers but I won't name names.

C'mon.............you CAN'T say that then leave us all hanging on for Episode 2
As Ioften see on here "Photos or it didn't happen" and not photos of the flier either

 

[B-Man2]

I noticed a lot a fellows used ascots as well.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Smithy reminded me amongst a far too big personal collection of Vintage Scarves I've got originals in Green & White and Red & White, I'll see if I can fish them out tomorrow and post a pic..........NOT for sale, we both wear these regularly

 

[Smithy]

I noticed a lot a fellows used ascots as well.

No, no RAF pilot wore a cravat (ascot as you guys call then) when flying, it doesn't protect the neck sufficiently. The silk scarf was tied in the same way as a cravat and worn inside the collar like one. The scarf wasn't to look good - although they did - it was to stop the neck being chafed when turning the head to look for enemy aircraft. The thin band of the cravat wasn't big enough to protect the neck enough. That's why even silk knickers were used. In terms of knickers, I know of several who did this, the most famous was Ken Wilkinson, one of the Few.